New Domino out of Adjustment?

[jb883]

I love my Domino (and my other Festools).  I just got the Domino a couple of weeks ago and notice that plunging off pencil lines results in mortises that are about 1/8 off center.  Working off the registration pins yields better results, but they are still slightly off. 
Based on Christian Os post (http://festoolownersgroup.com/index.php?topic=1815.msg17508) that this should be calibrated correctly at the factory I took it back to my local Rockler store where I purchased it a couple weeks ago. 
Folks at the store were extremely helpful and they pulled another one out of the box and we started making test cuts in the store and found the same issue!  Pulled their demo out and same problem!  The store manager is taking care of sending it back and I will see how that goes.  I have read about people adjusting them on this forum, but part of the reason I spend the extra $$ on Festool is for quality and accuracy.  I dont expect to have to play around with adjustments on an $800 tool out of the box.
I will post again when this is resolved.

 

[Warrior]

Its not that hard to adjust the pin. I did when I got my domino when it hit the shelves last year. So did most of everyone who purchased theirs. A few people complained just like yourself. I just adjusted the pin and got started using the most amazing hand held mortiser. It is one of the most revolutionary tools to come out in a long time. It is like cheating. Think about it... mortise and tenon joints in about 15 seconds. And for only 800.00 well I paid alot less for mine. That was when they had the intro pricing.

When you buy a jointer do you expect the blades to be installed correctly or do you check them? Actually they werent even install in the cutter head when I bought my jointer. I even had to mount the motor and install the belts. And for a 800.00 jointer. I should have expected more from Powermatic than that.

If you think about it your complaint is just silly.

 

[Warrior]

It actually looks like all you have to adjust is the sighting window. Even easier.

 

[Bob Childress]

Well, I wouldn 't go so far as to call your complaint silly, but a little adjustment can be normal.

Having said that, 1/8" is a heck of a lot out. And I don't see how using the registration pins would yield a different result. Something seems off here.  Can you explain a bit more in detail what you mean by off-center? Off vertically? Or horizontally? Off the center of the pencil mark?

 

[jb883]

Thanks Bob.  I appreciate your inquiry vs Mr Fuller who decided to dismiss this out of hand without trying to understand the issue.
There are 2 things out of whack here. 

1.  Using the sight gauge on a pencil line across 2 boards results in a joint where the pencil line is close to 1/8 off after cutting 2 mortises and putting the 2 boards back together.  There is not enough adjustment in the sight gauge alone to account for this much deviation.
2.  Cutting 2 mortises on 2 boards by referencing off the edge of the board using the locator pins on the Domino also results in a joint that is slightly off.  Probably 1/64 or less, but still slightly off.

I did see in the manual where it is very clearly explained how to adjust the sight guage and it looks simple enough, but given the separate issue with the registration pins (I know there is an adjustment there too) and Christian Os post about not adjusting these yourself and that I only bought it a couple weeks ago, I decided to drive 5min back to Rockler and let them check it out. 
Apparently the manager at Rockler after making several cuts with it decided it was best to send it back as well.  They loaned me their demo model and have already contacted the rep who also lives near by.  So far I can't complain a bit about how they are handling it.

 

[Warrior]

Sorry if I was a bit harsh.

the sight window often does not have enough adjustment to get on the money. I had the same issue.

A 1/8" is quite alot though it means the window is off by half of that. I had to enlarge the mounting holes in the sight window to get mine to center.

Directions for adjustment of the pin is in Rick Christopherson's Supplemental manual which has Festool's blessing so I don't know why Christian would say not to adjust it.

I am a professional and if I have to send a tool in to adjust it I might as well not have it at all. I adjust all my tools to the accuracy I need.

 

[Brice Burrell]

JB, your Domino could be out of adjustment, I wouldn't dismiss that possibility. Like Eiji, I think some adjustment is sometimes necessary to even the most expensive tools. I made a small adjustment to my Domino's registration pin. I would strongly recommend against any permanent alternations to a new tool  in order to make it work as intended (like enlarging the holes in the sight window of the Domino). I think you did the right by taking the tool back to Rockler another option would be to call Festool.

However, your Domino may not be out of adjustment. There is a bit of a learning curve to get the Domino to produce perfect results. Some people can pick up the technique quickly while some it takes a bit longer. Plunging too slowly or quickly can result in misaligned mortises, it takes a little time to get the feel for the correct plunge speed. Given the number of Dominos experiencing this problem it seems to me it is more likely to be user error than problems with the that number of tools.

Good luck and let us know how it turns out.

 

[jb883]

Thanks Brice.  I tried to pay attention to my technique and have read a lot of good stuff here on the FOG.  I certainly can see a difference in the first ones I did and 100 cuts later.  We will see what they come back with and I will post results here.  I posted in the first place just for information and to try and contribute as I have certainly 'taken' a lot from FOG.  I think so much of the tools, I almost hope it is me.
Thanks
Jim

 

[AlexThePalex]

I had to enlarge the mounting holes in the sight window to get mine to center.

And then you call jb883's complaint silly? I never had to physically alter my power tools to make them work, not even the $50 ones.

 

[Warrior]

Yes I do.

I bought the Domino to do a job and I needed it to do it then. I am not going to pussy foot around and send a tool back when I can do a simple adjustment and start making money. Its hard enough to stay competitive when everything works like a charm.

 

[James Watriss]

I'm not sure that having to adjust the sight window that far out is a reasonable adjustment though. It may work for cuts taken from marks as seen through the window, but if you're having to move it that far out of the way, it may be off-center between the two pins.

I'm on the fence. I hear Eiji's point, and he's right... there's a certain amount of user adjustment that is part of any tool's learning curve. Some people buy a chisel and expect not to have to sharpen it, too. But I think after a while there's a point where so much adjustment really is too much, and while I think the tool should be worked through the rest of the day, when there's spare time, a return trip to the store is probably in order.

 

[fidelfs]

I think both are correct.  It is not acceptable for $800 tool to have these problems, but sometimes you have to deal what you have.

If you have the time send back the domino to get fix.  If you are in a hurry and it is something minor (minor translated to something you can fix yourself, even if it is a misalignment preventing to join 2 boards), well you have to deal with the problem and make lemonade from the lemons.

My experience with festool is not all the tools are made the same, it looks like they have niche of almost perfect tools  (sanders, TS, vacuums ) the rest have problems (kapex, domino, mft square, etc.)

I just sent my domino to get fixed, I fed up with the mortises not being parallel to the edge.  That is a major problem but I made it work until now, but I said the warranty will expire so it is time to get fixed.

I try to buy festool tools only within that niche of great tools and pass on the others.  Would I buy the domino again, probably yes but I would inspected more carefully on day one.  After using it I don't think is worth $800 for the limitations/defects.

 

[AlexThePalex]

I am not going to pussy foot around and send a tool back when I can do a simple adjustment

Yes, but I don't think it's about pussy-footing about what you can do to the tool yourself or not.  

I think this is about a tool working out of the box as intended, or not, especially when you pay such a huge price for it and Festool going to great lengths promising to deliver top notch quality for a top notch price.

Now you might be very proud of yourself that you can adjust your machine to your likings as you please, but for $800 it's my opinion you shouldn't even have to and a complaint about that is very justified.

 

[tbellemare]

Jim:

It seems there must be a technique issue or something else is really out of whack. The Domino has multiple alignment mechanisms, not just the sight glass. There are all sorts of marks on the castings and fence. It seems peculiar that you wouldn't notice a misalignment of an 1/8".

Tom

 

[daveg]

I love my Domino (and my other Festools).  I just got the Domino a couple of weeks ago and notice that plunging off pencil lines results in mortises that are about 1/8 off center.  Working off the registration pins yields better results, but they are still slightly off. 
Based on Christian Os post (http://festoolownersgroup.com/index.php?topic=1815.msg17508) that this should be calibrated correctly at the factory I took it back to my local Rockler store where I purchased it a couple weeks ago. 
Folks at the store were extremely helpful and they pulled another one out of the box and we started making test cuts in the store and found the same issue!  Pulled their demo out and same problem!  The store manager is taking care of sending it back and I will see how that goes.  I have read about people adjusting them on this forum, but part of the reason I spend the extra $$ on Festool is for quality and accuracy.  I dont expect to have to play around with adjustments on an $800 tool out of the box.
I will post again when this is resolved.

I have a similar problem with the sight gauge on my Domino. In my case, I was able to adjust the plastic gauge, but just barely. However, the additional problem that I have found is that the Trim Stop accessory will not properly center the mortise on the end of a workpiece without me offsetting the workpiece from the expected "alignment" markings on the Trim Stop (eg, 25mm Left/Right needs to be 23mm Left and 27mm Right). Unfortunately, I didn't encounter this additional problem until a year later when I purchased and first used the Trim Stop accessory. The lesson that I learned in this experience is that I should have expected this $800 tool to work correctly out of the box. I should have sent it back for replacement (like you). Now, I have an $800 tool that is aligned for some operations and not for others, but that is out of manufacturer warranty.

 

[Bob Marino]

I love my Domino (and my other Festools).  I just got the Domino a couple of weeks ago and notice that plunging off pencil lines results in mortises that are about 1/8 off center.  Working off the registration pins yields better results, but they are still slightly off. 
Based on Christian Os post (http://festoolownersgroup.com/index.php?topic=1815.msg17508) that this should be calibrated correctly at the factory I took it back to my local Rockler store where I purchased it a couple weeks ago. 
Folks at the store were extremely helpful and they pulled another one out of the box and we started making test cuts in the store and found the same issue!  Pulled their demo out and same problem!  The store manager is taking care of sending it back and I will see how that goes.  I have read about people adjusting them on this forum, but part of the reason I spend the extra $$ on Festool is for quality and accuracy.  I dont expect to have to play around with adjustments on an $800 tool out of the box.
I will post again when this is resolved.

I have a similar problem with the sight gauge on my Domino. In my case, I was able to adjust the plastic gauge, but just barely. However, the additional problem that I have found is that the Trim Stop accessory will not properly center the mortise on the end of a workpiece without me offsetting the workpiece from the expected "alignment" markings on the Trim Stop (eg, 25mm Left/Right needs to be 23mm Left and 27mm Right). Unfortunately, I didn't encounter this additional problem until a year later when I purchased and first used the Trim Stop accessory. The lesson that I learned in this experience is that I should have expected this $800 tool to work correctly out of the box. I should have sent it back for replacement (like you). Now, I have an $800 tool that is aligned for some operations and not for others, but that is out of manufacturer warranty.

Why not give Festool Service a call? They are very helpful.

Bob

 

[jb883]

Update:  I got an email first thing this morning from my friendly Rockler store manager that she had spoken to the local Rep and as I write this my Domino is FedEx bound back to Festool.

 

[MueMi]

JB,

When your Domino is back you should check every adjustment to be on the safe side for further projects.
When I got my Domino (unfortunately without registration pins) I had the same problem.
I found a very nice manual describing the adjustmens procedures in detail.
Now my Domino has a precision less than 0,02mm which is very fine.
Look here for more details :

http://www.waterfront-woods.com/festool/index.htm

M?Mi

 

[jb883]

Thanks.  I intend to give it a very thorough testing when it comes back.  It just arrived at Festool on Friday, so hopefully I will see it back this week.  In the meantime I bought an OF 1400 yesterday to take my mind off it  ;D ;D ;D.

 

[butzla]

1/8" sounds like a helluva lot.  This might be a silly question,  are you cutting the same width mortises on both mating pieces or do you change the width of the mortise on one piece like to allow for adjustment?