New shop with 50' of cinder block wall

[Rick Herrick]

If all goes well, I will be moving into a new house at the end of May. One of the features why we bought this house is the basement has a nice 50' x 15' work area. The long wall is a full cinder block wall. I will most likely just line things (tools, benches, etc) up along that wall. I know I will be moving stuff around to fine tune the space so I don't want to keep attaching things to the block wall. Any suggestions? I could just attach full plywood sheets to it so drilling into the block would be a one time thing. Long ago I had a similar situation and I just made a studded wall (2x4s, sheetrock, etc). I want to make this as efficient as possible and only have to adhere things to the wall once. Thanks for any pointers.

 

[jeffinsgf]

Rick, my shop is block all the way around. I have attached French cleats to the walls with TapCons. I can rearrange at will and I have fun designing the tool holders. You can see the cleats with my hand tools and bench planes in the background of this video (and several others, too). The area right behind my bench where we used to shoot the Deep Dives changed almost weekly to work in whatever was new.



I did my cleats a little different from most. They're hardwood, about 1-1/2" wide with a 45-degree bevel. the bottom edge has a 3/8" roundover. I put a bullnose piece on the back side of the tool holder that catches the underside of the cleat, so it doesn't lift off when I grab something. Things that span two cleats can be installed in place (the round over and the bullnose will pass by each other). Stuff that just fits on one cleat has to be slid on from the end, but that's a small price to pay for not knocking off tool holders every time you grab something.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

I think I would do a combination of both ideas. The cleats, of course, but rather than directly to the block, attach them to 3/4" ply first. That's a whole lot less drilling in the block.
My cleats are a bit closer together than what I see most people do. I have a small area that is my (pre-shop) shop working area. It is an enclosed area, between the house and garage. It is mostly metal working tools, but it also contains my Jet mini lathe. The cleats on those walls are 3 1/2" wide and 3 1/2" apart, on 2 adjacent walls 8 feet each.
I intend to do the same in my actual woodshop, but I might incorporate a bevel on the underside, to facilitate a locking mechanism. Not sure yet.

 

[Cheese]

I'd install foam board insulation over the concrete block between 2"x 2" studs and cover it with ply. I did the same thing in the basement shop using drywall instead.

I'd not recommend using OSB as some of the very thin layers of strand board can and will detach themselves when painted with water based paint, I learned my lesson when building the garage. It is nice however to mount anything you want to wherever you want without worrying about finding the studs to fasten to.

Photos below:
1. Studs fastened to block with PL400 and powder actuated fasteners.

2. Foam board fastened to block with PL300 using vertical beads of the adhesive.

3. Drywall/ply installed over both and fastened to the studs.

4. Don't forget any electrical cable protection plates.

 

[Packard]

Where I live, if the walls are at ground level or below ground level, any attached studs have to be PT. (And I assume you cannot close the walls in until a building inspector has passed it.)

And while I like the appearance of hiding the electrical in the walls, for a shop or basement, I would use surface mounts only. Changes in equipment locations might require new outlet boxes.

I would not insulate or enclose the walls until I have lived there for a while. Despite the claims from all builders I have ever met that “My basements are not wet”. I read that nearly 40% of all new homes have water intrusion issues that have to be addressed.

My house, which is 236 feet above sea level and over 180 feet above the main road, had water intrusion issues due to clay formation in the soil. The clay, which created a layer of water-resistant soil, allowed the water to migrate horizontally and make for a wet basement. Excavation and drainage solved the problem.

In any event, I would wait out one full year to make sure you have no water issues before insulating and enclosing the walls. This applies to both old and new construction.

 

[Rick Herrick]

Hey Jeff @jeffinsgf . I will watch your videos. I have been fascinated by french cleats but my ingenuity quotient is not as high as some of you. @Cheese , I never thought about the insulation aspect, I like that idea. @Crazyraceguy I won't be hiding any wiring, hoping to just run conduit along the ceiling and put down drops where I need them. All good ideas, thank you. This house is 30+ years old and not much water intrusion so far. But there has been some rerouting of water spouts to help mitigate it.

 

[Sparktrician]

I'd install foam board insulation over the concrete block between 2"x 2" studs and cover it with ply. I did the same thing in the basement shop using drywall instead.

I'd not recommend using OSB as some of the very thin layers of strand board can and will detach themselves when painted with water based paint, I learned my lesson when building the garage. It is nice however to mount anything you want to wherever you want without worrying about finding the studs to fasten to.

Photos below:
1. Studs fastened to block with PL400 and powder actuated fasteners.

2. Foam board fastened to block with PL300 using vertical beads of the adhesive.

3. Drywall/ply installed over both and fastened to the studs.

4. Don't forget any electrical cable protection plates.

@Rick Herrick, I'm with @Cheese on this one. I'd also suggest holding the furring strips and insulation up by 1" or so off the slab so any leakage through the block will be evident along the floor line. And as for insulation, I'd suggest using rockwool batts. I might also put up a vapor barrier over the furring strips and insulation before mounting any plywood with the intent of preventing delamination, should there be any leakage. In keeping with this practice, I'd also hold any plywood up off the floor by the same interval. I also like the use of French cleats for mounting cabinets, and would place them at 12" AFF, 30" AFF, 48" AFF, 66" AFF, and 84" AFF such that if you want to slide cabinets right or left, of shift shorter cabinets up or down, it's far easier. Taller cabinets would use two or more cleats for better weight distribution. No cabinets would use less than two cleats. I'd also suggest the use of a single lock screw placed through the back of the cabinet such that it goes just below the bottom of the fixed wall cleats without hitting the surface of the wall plywood to both permit sliding cabinets right and left, yet preventing accidentally knocking the cabinet up off the fixed cleats. If you choose to use the cleats, I'd suggest running tube conduit down the wall in corners of the room to avoid interrupting the cleats, and run multiple circuits through 3/4" tube conduit to receptacles placed 42" AFF. (Not that anyone might consider me opinionated... )

 

[Cheese]

Rick...insulate the space...you've got nothing to lose and a lot to gain.
Just remember, once the space is covered over, you've missed your opportunity...most folks won't undue what they've already done.

Is it a new house or just new to you? I ask because Packard brings up a valid point on water seepage through the block wall. If it's a new house I'd wait and see what happens after a couple of heavy rainfalls. If the house is new to you, check the walls for any signs of efflorescence.
That's the reason I adhered the foam board with vertical lines of PL300, so that any water that came through the block, would eventually reach the floor and be noticed. That way I'd be aware of a water problem that needed to be fixed. After all these years...NADA.

 

[Packard]

I don’t think there is a huge advantage in insulating a basement that is below ground. In effect, the subterranean basement has geothermal heating and cooling.

Half of my basement is below ground; the other half is not.

Even when the outdoors temperature drops to “zero”, the below ground area of the basement does not drop below 55 degrees F.

Even when the outdoors temperature rises above 90 degrees, the below ground area remains almost 20 degrees cooler.

I’m not sure what the return on investment would be for insulating a basement that is entirely below ground level.

 

[jeffinsgf]

Just a differing opinion...

I went with Drylok Extreme waterproofing paint instead of furring and insulation. I've had zero water problems, and if one shows up, it's not going to be hidden by insulation and sheathing. Plus...I kinda like the block wall look. Seems "shoppy".

 

[Packard]

I don’t think there is a huge advantage in insulating a basement that is below ground. In effect, the subterranean basement has geothermal heating and cooling.

Half of my basement is below ground; the other half is not.

Even when the outdoors temperature drops to “zero”, the below ground area of the basement does not drop below 55 degrees F. I would note that 55F is seriously close to the minimum painting temperature, so I have a couple of accurate thermometers in the basement to check if it is OK to paint.

Even when the outdoors temperature rises above 90 degrees, the below ground area remains almost 20 degrees cooler.

I’m not sure what the return on investment would be for insulating a basement that is entirely below grade.