OF1400 and LR32 - why doesn't of1400 come with an 8mm collet?!
- Thread starter mickmick
- Start date
DeformedTree
Member
- Joined
- May 19, 2018
- Messages
- 1,397
elfick said:
Surprised Festool didn't change the labeling to say it comes with 1/4". 5/16" and 1/2" collets in the N.A. market.
ian.atkinson
Member
- Joined
- Sep 15, 2022
- Messages
- 2
Hi everyone,
First post, I hope this is useful! For anyone else who arrives here from Google after purchasing an OF1400 and an LR32 then getting raged up at the 8mm parts I found a cheap solution. I got the set without the bits so I only need to be able to chuck up the centering mandrel not even any cutters.
I think Festool should either include two centering mandrels (1/4" and 8mm) so everyone can use it or change the part to have a shaft with both diameters (like part #492187).
Anyway, I've discovered you can get reducing collets which are a lot cheaper than a whole new collet e.g.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/CLT-SLV-81...f=sr_1_5?crid=2T1IBZPHY9B1R&keywords=reducing+collet+8mm&qid=1663267799&sprefix=reducing+collet+8mm%2Caps%2C63&sr=8-5
So I'm going to get that for 12 quid which will let me use the 8mm mandrel with the 1/2" collet.
Ian
First post, I hope this is useful! For anyone else who arrives here from Google after purchasing an OF1400 and an LR32 then getting raged up at the 8mm parts I found a cheap solution. I got the set without the bits so I only need to be able to chuck up the centering mandrel not even any cutters.
I think Festool should either include two centering mandrels (1/4" and 8mm) so everyone can use it or change the part to have a shaft with both diameters (like part #492187).
Anyway, I've discovered you can get reducing collets which are a lot cheaper than a whole new collet e.g.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/CLT-SLV-81...f=sr_1_5?crid=2T1IBZPHY9B1R&keywords=reducing+collet+8mm&qid=1663267799&sprefix=reducing+collet+8mm%2Caps%2C63&sr=8-5
So I'm going to get that for 12 quid which will let me use the 8mm mandrel with the 1/2" collet.
Ian
- Joined
- Feb 22, 2016
- Messages
- 3,014
You can also get one of my 1/4" x 40mm centering mandrels.
They are made for use with my LR32 Adapters but will work
with the OF1400 and Festool LR32 Guide Plate.
They are $6 each including postage to the lower 48 States.
PM me if interested.
They are made for use with my LR32 Adapters but will work
with the OF1400 and Festool LR32 Guide Plate.
They are $6 each including postage to the lower 48 States.
PM me if interested.
luvmytoolz
Member
ian.atkinson said:
I'm not a fan of reducing collars in collets. A lot of them require inordinate amounts of force to maintain hold and even then under load the cutter can shift. I think for the one time extra cost it's better, and safer to spring for the correct collet, just my opinion though!
Cheese
Member
luvmytoolz said:
I agree 100% with the excessive force statement AND the reducing collars can also introduce concentricity issues. For the few extra dollars I’d purchase the correct collet.
Crazyraceguy
Member
- Joined
- Oct 16, 2015
- Messages
- 5,067
This is one of those cases where it works for some people and others are not going to like it. It's a no-win situation.
The whole 8mm vs 5/16" is going to be a thing though. "Technically" there are no actual 5/16" bits out there, other than the 5/16" solid carbide up-spiral straight bit....that's it. Those have usually been adapted to work, or in an ER type collet on a CNC. There is minimal difference 5/16"=.312 and 8mm=.315 but nearly nothing is sold as 5/16", so collets just aren't made for them. They don't come with any routers sold in US markets.
8mm however is really a thing. They are available as steel shank and brazed carbide, like any other, in lots of profiles. Just a heavier-duty version with a thicker shank, mid-range.
They are not common in the US, which is why I thought it was weird that it came with the OF1400, when I first bought it. The MFK700 comes with an 8mm also, as does the OF1010, so I just embraced it and started looking for sources.
At this point, I have very few 1/4" bits, other than some for laminate trimming.
When I first started with this forum, I learned about the differences depending upon delivery area. I also found it odd that in the UK they use imperial sizes? I would have expected 6mm and 12mm to be equivalent to the US, but apparently not? 1/4" and 1/2" are the norm.
Edge-guide vs 8mm collet would be a hard choice, if I had to make it. The edge-guide costs more, so if you would use it? might be better. 8mm bits aren't common here, but if you have some (or have the LR-32 system) that preferred. I would just buy it and moved on....than again, I use the OF1010 for the LR-32. [unsure]
As far as the cost? Try pricing a collet for the typical Milwaukee full-size router, the 1/4" is $36 and the 1/2" is $39 (in the US at least) Everything Festool costs more, so it not that much.
To me it seems worse that they want $39 for a collet to a router that you can buy for $225.
$50 for a collet on a router that sells for $650, percentage-wise is actually better.
The whole 8mm vs 5/16" is going to be a thing though. "Technically" there are no actual 5/16" bits out there, other than the 5/16" solid carbide up-spiral straight bit....that's it. Those have usually been adapted to work, or in an ER type collet on a CNC. There is minimal difference 5/16"=.312 and 8mm=.315 but nearly nothing is sold as 5/16", so collets just aren't made for them. They don't come with any routers sold in US markets.
8mm however is really a thing. They are available as steel shank and brazed carbide, like any other, in lots of profiles. Just a heavier-duty version with a thicker shank, mid-range.
They are not common in the US, which is why I thought it was weird that it came with the OF1400, when I first bought it. The MFK700 comes with an 8mm also, as does the OF1010, so I just embraced it and started looking for sources.
At this point, I have very few 1/4" bits, other than some for laminate trimming.
When I first started with this forum, I learned about the differences depending upon delivery area. I also found it odd that in the UK they use imperial sizes? I would have expected 6mm and 12mm to be equivalent to the US, but apparently not? 1/4" and 1/2" are the norm.
Edge-guide vs 8mm collet would be a hard choice, if I had to make it. The edge-guide costs more, so if you would use it? might be better. 8mm bits aren't common here, but if you have some (or have the LR-32 system) that preferred. I would just buy it and moved on....than again, I use the OF1010 for the LR-32. [unsure]
As far as the cost? Try pricing a collet for the typical Milwaukee full-size router, the 1/4" is $36 and the 1/2" is $39 (in the US at least) Everything Festool costs more, so it not that much.
To me it seems worse that they want $39 for a collet to a router that you can buy for $225.
$50 for a collet on a router that sells for $650, percentage-wise is actually better.
- Joined
- Feb 22, 2016
- Messages
- 3,014
Elaire Corporation has reasonable priced collets made in the USA for many models and brands of routers.
I have nothing to do with them, just a happy customer.
https://elairecorp.com/routercollets/
I have nothing to do with them, just a happy customer.
https://elairecorp.com/routercollets/
luvmytoolz
Member
Coen said:
As much as OZ embraces metric, pretty much ALL router bits available to us are 1/4" or 1/2", the only time you come across 8mm/10mm cutters is via tools usually destined for the European market, and maybe some oddball ones like the Leigh jig cutters. So we would be screwed without the imperial collets.
mino
Member
Correct.Crazyraceguy said:
And, in reality, it is actually "better" for Festool here.
Some story:
--------------
The Festool collets are very high quality, so the cost is justified. For reference, when Narex /Festool sister brand here/ sold their router - OF1010 internals in a simplified chasis - they used THE SAME collect as OF1010 uses.
Guess how much it cost ?
Yes. They sold a collect for a $200(isch) router for $40 (Festool SKU of the same cost $50 at the time). And that is for a brand which had minimal warranty and price-focused /at Festool-class durability/. And only a single collect was provided - 8mm - with it.
In other words, those collets ARE EXPENSIVE to manufacture. Any added to an SKU is $40 added to the price. Give-take. These things are no $1 chinesium pieces.
That is also the reason one sees most cheapo routers pack 4 or more collects. Those collects are weak and/or imprecise and are dirt cheap to add for that reason.
luvmytoolz
Member
I must admit, since I got my first CNC machine many years ago, I have wondered why router manufacturers didn't standardize on ER20 collets instead of unique ones specific to their products. Could be a warranty concern with cheap crappy ones being used by the end user, or maybe purely profit. Or perhaps just wanting the ability to control the whole experience and therefore the expectations of the end users in maintaining a quality product?
ER20 across the board for 1/2" routers and ER11 for trimmers would be pretty damn useful though!
ER20 across the board for 1/2" routers and ER11 for trimmers would be pretty damn useful though!
woodbutcherbower
Member
luvmytoolz said:
This ^^^^ The UK’s exactly the same. Virtually 100% metric, but router bits are still predominantly half-inch or quarter-inch. Most are, however, actually manufactured to metric sizes - 12.7mm and 6.35mm accordingly. Describing any system of measurement as ‘ridiculously outdated nonsense’ is missing the point. That’s what the majority of woodworkers in NA still use. It’s what they know, it’s what they were taught, it works for them, it’s what they’re familiar and comfortable with. Any/all of that shouldn’t be any basis for judgemental criticism just because it’s done differently in other countries. It’s like giving the rest of the world a hard time because they speak a different language.
FWIW - I’d also make the point that complaints about ‘the xxxx wasn’t included with the machine’ are also unfair. Just read the clear and itemised ‘what comes in the box’ product specs before you order. When I bought my OF2200 many years ago, I didn’t just assume that it came with a parallel fence, because I’d taken 30 seconds out of my day to check first, so I knew I’d also need to purchase the accessory set. Life’s only complicated if we choose to make it so.
ian.atkinson
Member
- Joined
- Sep 15, 2022
- Messages
- 2
Cheese said:
I don't think I would want to use one of the collars with actual cutters but as I was saying the only thing I need to chuck is the mandrel so I don't even need to turn the router on with it in, just align the screws. The adapter is £12 the collet is about £56 so it's nearly 5x the cost, not worth it just for the mandrel.
Ian
luvmytoolz
Member
woodbutcherbower said:
Completely agree, and I'd actually say that when it comes to the Festool routers I didn't mind at all paying a premium to buy premium tools, the OF1400 and the OF2200 far exceeded my expectations, so I have no qualms whatsoever at buying a good quality collet in the size I need.
I thought my trusty old ELU MOF177E was the best router ever made when I bought it new, but the OF2200 blows it and every other router I've ever had out of the water. It is an absolute beast but incredibly smooth and quiet, and very,very well balanced. This is the usability and quality you pay for IMHO, so I think it's a bit pointless to complain about the configuration sold. Same as the sanders, would it kill Festool to put more than one lousy sanding disc in the systainer, probably not? Do I care, no, as I'm buying the sander, and as the discs are such great value and last so long I'll also happily buy whatever discs I want.
I've had enough cheap tools over the years to really make me appreciate just how far ahead of the curve Festool is with a lot of their stuff, and recognise that it comes at a relevant price point.
woodbutcherbower said:
It's not about is being different, but about it being inferior. Every year way more patients
are poisoned by their doctor under the inperial measurements system because it's too complicated.
Same with languages. Some are just too complicated while still lacking detailed expressions, like my own Dutch. But the only thing localized around that is the manuals who nobody reads anyway.
luvmytoolz
Member
Coen said:
I would actually disagree quite strongly on this, I consider it more than reasonable for any suitably trained professional to perform their job in an adequate fashion, if that requires using a calculator on occasion, or simply remembering simple common conversions, then that is the very minimum they should be able to do competently.
The problem I see, is that no matter how much you dumb down anything to make it idiot proof, they'll simply go ahead and invent a better idiot.
Holding people to a higher standard is what should be happening.
- Joined
- Feb 22, 2016
- Messages
- 3,014
"Every year way more patients are poisoned by their doctor under the inperial measurements system because it's too complicated."
Could you cite some examples of this Imperial confusion of which you speak? My memory is not perfect but I can not remember ever hearing of an event involving a miscalculation in a dose or application in the medical profession. I have no doubt it has happened, just not with the regularity that you imply. And if this were happening, I would think the numbers would go down; because the previous years events would highlight the need to pay attention when dispensing medications; not up which would imply a total disregard for the health and safety of patients.
The US diverged from the British Imperial System in early 1800s and has been using the USC (United Sates Customary) system since that time.
Yes, many here still refer to our system as Imperial, myself included at times. But it is not 100% the same as the British Imperial System of measurement from the early 1800s.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_customary_units
My doctors all use metric system. My height and weight are recorded in cm and kg, and all the meds I have ever received have been dispensed in mg or ml.
Could you cite some examples of this Imperial confusion of which you speak? My memory is not perfect but I can not remember ever hearing of an event involving a miscalculation in a dose or application in the medical profession. I have no doubt it has happened, just not with the regularity that you imply. And if this were happening, I would think the numbers would go down; because the previous years events would highlight the need to pay attention when dispensing medications; not up which would imply a total disregard for the health and safety of patients.
The US diverged from the British Imperial System in early 1800s and has been using the USC (United Sates Customary) system since that time.
Yes, many here still refer to our system as Imperial, myself included at times. But it is not 100% the same as the British Imperial System of measurement from the early 1800s.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_customary_units
My doctors all use metric system. My height and weight are recorded in cm and kg, and all the meds I have ever received have been dispensed in mg or ml.
luvmytoolz said:
Every unnecessary step that involves humans introduces chances for errors to occur. That is why technical designs often require subassemblies that are not possible to assemble the wrong way, or if so, give clear indication that it's wrong before they leave the factory. Designs are analyzed by thinking about everything that can go wrong. Things that go wrong without prior warning and might have lethal consequences are given the highest score. Designs often have to be changed to avoid those highest scores. In select cases where this cannot be avoided, control of correct assembly might be done at three different steps along the production line and photographed before leaving the factory.
Any such decent analysis of medical professionals converting units would conclude that this is a wholly unnecessary and unwanted step that should be gotten rid off.
The funny thing is that the metric system was implemented in a lot of countries due to being overrun by Napoleon. The USA isn't really in the business of getting overrun, but more or less in trying to run other countries, but their army is doing it while using metric [tongue].
Bob D. said:
This has come up in similar discussions before, but can't find the same link. There is one behind a paywall, but the few lines that can be read already are pretty clear;https://www.modernhealthcare.com/ar...urged-to-go-metric-to-avoid-medication-errors
In the previous discussion it was something like this; nurse weighs a kid, converts the kg weight to lbs to tell to the parents, goes to the computer, enters the lbs weight instead of the kg weight and the computer subsequently prescribes a dose about 2.2x too high.
Yes, the inch was changed to be exactly 25.4mm [big grin]
Black & Decker (used to?) print a conversion table on their Workmate. Even that table wasn't correct.
Similar threads
