TSO Anodizing is very inconsistent, why?

[Crazyraceguy]

Let me add on to where Coen just ended, whether it's anodization or paint, accurately matching different batches of colored products is nigh on to impossible. Simply read the label on SW paint where hey exhort you to

This is why Pros use a technique called "boxing". Simply put, this is the mixing of multiple smaller containers into a larger one, thus blending away any variation. Then it can be returned to the smaller containers, for use as needed.

We often do this with stain too.

 

[Packard]

Specifically in the medical field where different color screws refer to different lengths. That way during surgery, instead of asking for a particular length the physician simply asks for a particular color. Easier and fewer mistakes are made.

Interesting.

In the early 1970s I was an independent manufacturers’ representative. One of my principals was a machine shop. At that time, I subscribed to a U.S. government publication called “Commerce Business Daily” [CBD] and it arrived my US Mail 5 days a week. It listed various government contracts being offered. One seemed to suit the capabilities of the machine shop I represented, so I requested a bidding package.

My principal bid the job and we were the low bidder. It called for machining 10 supplied castings, including milling and line boring. It seemed simple enough. And the contractor sent out a survey company to confirm that we were capable of doing the work. It was bid at $200.00 each for 10 pieces. What my principal did not notice was that he was responsible for any castings he damaged, which were made from titanium.

Luckily none were damaged. Each one was valued at $700.00. I referred to the material as “unobtainium”, which was my word-coinage at that time. The job went well, a the titanium caused no issues in the machine shop. However, when my principal learned the risk he had taken, it soured him on future government work.

CBD no longer exists. It has been replaced by an on-line version, which was always available for free. I am not sure what the Trump admin has done in that regard.

 

[luvmytoolz]

Let me add on to where Coen just ended, whether it's anodization or paint, accurately matching different batches of colored products is nigh on to impossible. Simply read the label on SW paint where hey exhort you to

Titanium can be anodized.

So long as it's not red! ;-)

 

[MMCO]

Interestingly enough, here's a photo directly from the TSO website.

My primary issue is with the two Parallel guides scales not matching or even being close. As mentioned in my initial post, it isn't as obvious in the picture due to lighting.

 

[Packard]

My primary issue is with the two Parallel guides scales not matching or even being close. As mentioned in my initial post, it isn't as obvious in the picture due to lighting.

I thought you were comparing the two different scales for color. If you are comparing the scales to the squaring plates, it is possible that the alloys are different, and the process for forming is different, and those differences will yield different colors.

The scales are extrusions.

The rail squares have machine marks over much of the surface. It is not clear to me if it was machined from billet, or started life as an extrusion. It would require an extremely large extrusion line to make that profile, and it would still need to be machined on a CNC machine. My guess is that it is made from billet, and quite possibly from a different alloy for improved machine ability and hardness.

Aluminum alloy 6061 is “plain vanilla” aluminum, and enjoys high availability and relatively low cost. It machines well, but is not particularly hard or tough. TSO might have selected a different alloy to improve the performance of the part or to facilitate manufacture.

Below is a link that lists several alloys of aluminum along with their properties. TSO almost certainly selects the alloy according to the physical properties required for the part and its ability to be machined and/or formed. Color matching is probably further down the list for consideration.

I agree that there is a huge color difference between the squaring arm and the scales. I have that same system, and the color matching o lack thereof, does not seem to affect functionality.

Do note that the colors will fade when exposed to UV rays. Of note is that blue and red dyes tend to fade the most; gold is nearly fade-proof, and black offers excellent UV resistance.

More on that here: https://www.anoplate.com/news-and-events/why-does-anodize-fade/

Excerpt here:

Anodized aluminum is for the most part a robust, quality finish that is readily obtained through any number of chemical processing houses, however, a persistent issue that arises is fading of colored anodize. The fact is that there are a number of causes for this, not always related to the processing houses cutting corners, so we thought we‘d review some of them.

[…] To begin with, anodic coatings are porous by nature and freshly anodized surfaces act as great receptors for dyestuffs, typically organic compounds available in a myriad of colors. The organic dyes used to impart color to freshly formed anodic coatings are the same as those used to dye textiles.[…]

 

[TSO_Products]

I thought you were comparing the two different scales for color. If you are comparing the scales to the squaring plates, it is possible that the alloys are different, and the process for forming is different, and those differences will yield different colors.

The scales are extrusions.

The rail squares have machine marks over much of the surface. It is not clear to me if it was machined from billet, or started life as an extrusion. It would require an extremely large extrusion line to make that profile, and it would still need to be machined on a CNC machine. My guess is that it is made from billet, and quite possibly from a different alloy for improved machine ability and hardness.

Aluminum alloy 6061 is “plain vanilla” aluminum, and enjoys high availability and relatively low cost. It machines well, but is not particularly hard or tough. TSO might have selected a different alloy to improve the performance of the part or to facilitate manufacture.

Below is a link that lists several alloys of aluminum along with their properties. TSO almost certainly selects the alloy according to the physical properties required for the part and its ability to be machined and/or formed. Color matching is probably further down the list for consideration.

I agree that there is a huge color difference between the squaring arm and the scales. I have that same system, and the color matching o lack thereof, does not seem to affect functionality.

Do note that the colors will fade when exposed to UV rays. Of note is that blue and red dyes tend to fade the most; gold is nearly fade-proof, and black offers excellent UV resistance.

More on that here: https://www.anoplate.com/news-and-events/why-does-anodize-fade/

Excerpt here:

Anodized aluminum is for the most part a robust, quality finish that is readily obtained through any number of chemical processing houses, however, a persistent issue that arises is fading of colored anodize. The fact is that there are a number of causes for this, not always related to the processing houses cutting corners, so we thought we‘d review some of them.

[…] To begin with, anodic coatings are porous by nature and freshly anodized surfaces act as great receptors for dyestuffs, typically organic compounds available in a myriad of colors. The organic dyes used to impart color to freshly formed anodic coatings are the same as those used to dye textiles.[…]

My primary issue is with the two Parallel guides scales not matching or even being close. As mentioned in my initial post, it isn't as obvious in the picture due to lighting.

I thought you were comparing the two different scales for color. If you are comparing the scales to the squaring plates, it is possible that the alloys are different, and the process for forming is different, and those differences will yield different colors.

The scales are extrusions.

The rail squares have machine marks over much of the surface. It is not clear to me if it was machined from billet, or started life as an extrusion. It would require an extremely large extrusion line to make that profile, and it would still need to be machined on a CNC machine. My guess is that it is made from billet, and quite possibly from a different alloy for improved machine ability and hardness.

Aluminum alloy 6061 is “plain vanilla” aluminum, and enjoys high availability and relatively low cost. It machines well, but is not particularly hard or tough. TSO might have selected a different alloy to improve the performance of the part or to facilitate manufacture.

Below is a link that lists several alloys of aluminum along with their properties. TSO almost certainly selects the alloy according to the physical properties required for the part and its ability to be machined and/or formed. Color matching is probably further down the list for consideration.

I agree that there is a huge color difference between the squaring arm and the scales. I have that same system, and the color matching o lack thereof, does not seem to affect functionality.

Do note that the colors will fade when exposed to UV rays. Of note is that blue and red dyes tend to fade the most; gold is nearly fade-proof, and black offers excellent UV resistance.

More on that here: https://www.anoplate.com/news-and-events/why-does-anodize-fade/

Excerpt here:

Anodized aluminum is for the most part a robust, quality finish that is readily obtained through any number of chemical processing houses, however, a persistent issue that arises is fading of colored anodize. The fact is that there are a number of causes for this, not always related to the processing houses cutting corners, so we thought we‘d review some of them.

[…] To begin with, anodic coatings are porous by nature and freshly anodized surfaces act as great receptors for dyestuffs, typically organic compounds available in a myriad of colors. The organic dyes used to impart color to freshly formed anodic coatings are the same as those used to dye textiles.[…]

I thought you were comparing the two different scales for color. If you are comparing the scales to the squaring plates, it is possible that the alloys are different, and the process for forming is different, and those differences will yield different colors.

The scales are extrusions.

The rail squares have machine marks over much of the surface. It is not clear to me if it was machined from billet, or started life as an extrusion. It would require an extremely large extrusion line to make that profile, and it would still need to be machined on a CNC machine. My guess is that it is made from billet, and quite possibly from a different alloy for improved machine ability and hardness.

Aluminum alloy 6061 is “plain vanilla” aluminum, and enjoys high availability and relatively low cost. It machines well, but is not particularly hard or tough. TSO might have selected a different alloy to improve the performance of the part or to facilitate manufacture.

Below is a link that lists several alloys of aluminum along with their properties. TSO almost certainly selects the alloy according to the physical properties required for the part and its ability to be machined and/or formed. Color matching is probably further down the list for consideration.

I agree that there is a huge color difference between the squaring arm and the scales. I have that same system, and the color matching o lack thereof, does not seem to affect functionality.

Do note that the colors will fade when exposed to UV rays. Of note is that blue and red dyes tend to fade the most; gold is nearly fade-proof, and black offers excellent UV resistance.

More on that here: https://www.anoplate.com/news-and-events/why-does-anodize-fade/

Excerpt here:

Anodized aluminum is for the most part a robust, quality finish that is readily obtained through any number of chemical processing houses, however, a persistent issue that arises is fading of colored anodize. The fact is that there are a number of causes for this, not always related to the processing houses cutting corners, so we thought we‘d review some of them.

[…] To begin with, anodic coatings are porous by nature and freshly anodized surfaces act as great receptors for dyestuffs, typically organic compounds available in a myriad of colors. The organic dyes used to impart color to freshly formed anodic coatings are the same as those used to dye textiles.[…]

My primary issue is with the two Parallel guides scales not matching or even being close. As mentioned in my initial post, it isn't as obvious in the picture due to lighting.

@MMCO - we understand your feeling of disappointment regarding the color shade variation between individual blue anodized parts. Similar customer comments have appeared in years past. The reasons behind the issue, once understood, have become widely accepted.

TSO says:
aluminum products we provide with an anodized finish are intended to provide the following:
- Protect the tool against corrosion in normal use.
- Protect the workpiece against discoloration from unprotected raw aluminum when that constitutes a risk.
- Provide a contrasting background which can be laser engraved to reveal the lighter natural aluminum background.
- Color density matching from part-to-part adds no value to the intended function of the tool nor does it reduce functionality.

We agree it would be nicer to have matched colors if available anodizing finishers could provide it.

thank you for understanding.
Hans at TSO

 

[WillettBarrel]

@MMCO - we understand your feeling of disappointment regarding the color shade variation between individual blue anodized parts. Similar customer comments have appeared in years past. The reasons behind the issue, once understood, have become widely accepted.

TSO says:
aluminum products we provide with an anodized finish are intended to provide the following:
- Protect the tool against corrosion in normal use.
- Protect the workpiece against discoloration from unprotected raw aluminum when that constitutes a risk.
- Provide a contrasting background which can be laser engraved to reveal the lighter natural aluminum background.
- Color density matching from part-to-part adds no value to the intended function of the tool nor does it reduce functionality.

We agree it would be nicer to have matched colors if available anodizing finishers could provide it.

thank you for understanding.
Hans at TSO

Hans @TSO_Products,

I think the feedback your customers just gave you, is that many of them feel they're paying a premium for both form and function.

You've very well articulated the functional intent of your product. You also explicitly acknowledged room for improvement in your product's form. ("We agree it would be nicer to have matched colors...")
- Do you have any steps planned to seek those improvements?
- If not, what would you like the percentage of market share who are paying premium for both form and function to think about your brand? (I can infer your thoughts from your post above, but I'm certain you'd prefer putting it in your own words.)

Full disclosure: I'm a very active customer of one (and previously two) of your direct competitors. I've researched TSO products many many times and always decide to go elsewhere. Though I do pay a premium for both form and function, my main interest is seeing how TSO responds to customer feedback.

 

[Hipplewm]

I am a customer of TSO, Woodpeckers and Benchdogs fwiw

Anodizing prevents corrosion and allows for the easier reading of the scale. Would it be nice to have them all the same hex code of blue and same brilliance - sure
Does it affect anything - no
Do I care personally - No - I have other things to be OCD about, this isn't even in my top 1000 of tools/woodworking things to care about

I have no idea if I am in the majority or minority - but I buy tools to perform a function, so long as they do - I am happy

Also - i am one to buy seconds or manufacture defects, just to save $$ and most of them are comestic blemishes, I just think it gives the tools "Character"

 

[Packard]

Specifically in the medical field where different color screws refer to different lengths. That way during surgery, instead of asking for a particular length the physician simply asks for a particular color. Easier and fewer mistakes are made.

And if they use organic dyes, the color shift may be significant. Sunlight affects anodizing too. Anodizing serves a few purposes:

1. Reduces or eliminates the formation of aluminum oxide (white rust).
2. Penetrates and hardens the surface of the metal.
3. Provides increased contrast with engraved markings.
4. Looks pretty.

My opinion is, if it takes care of items #1, #2, and #3, then #4 is by and large irrelevant in shop tools.

Note: Black anodizing is reputed to be fairly UV resistant and does not fade (much). Not so pretty though.

 

[Cheese]

Here's some interesting information from SAF: Metal Fabrication, Finishing & Distribution company in California. They produce architectural panels & extrusions for the commercial construction industry...think multi-million $$$ buildings
They were one of the first two industrial anodizing lines to open in the USA back in 1946 so they've been anodizing stuff for a while.

"It may not be possible to represent the amount of variation between sheet and extrusion. The difference in appearance between sheet and extrusion can be enormous. Fortunately sheet and extrusion are not normally expected to be identical, and are not used adjacent to one another in construction everyday. Members of the construction team should reasonably expect the sheet to match itself, and for the extrusion to match itself. If the anodized aluminum sheet perfectly matches the anodized extrusion on a building, then everyone just got lucky, tolerant or both."

And here's a best practices article from Reata Engineering & Machine Works.

Best Practices for Achieving Color Consistency | Reata Engineering

It’s important to set the right expectations about color consistency for anodized parts. At Reata, we also have some tips for ensuring better, brighter colors.

reataeng.com

 

[peter halle]

"Note: Black anodizing is reputed to be fairly UV resistant and does not fade (much). Not so pretty though."

And certainly not pleasant to use outside in the blaring sun due to heat.

Peter

 

[usernumber1]

The brand image is in question here not technicals of anodizing. They have chosen a color to represent their brand and they don't seem to care about it.

Most brands are extremely particular about their brand image especially their brand colors.

Nobody is going to tour their facilities and inspect their manufacturing process, so fit and finish, packaging and branding is what a customer goes off of. This is basic marketing, it's a direct communication to the customer what type of folks run the ship.
They could easily go function over form and forgo any blue specifics, just sell whatever anodizing they apply, and you know what - that would be a brand image on its own that's better than this.

What I see is a great attempt at function - We stopped getting grades after school, maybe it's time - I'd give them a b/b+. Their form and branding image seem to match. This is a great product but in reality there's not much of a competition

 

[Vondawg]

I am a customer of TSO, Woodpeckers and Benchdogs fwiw

Anodizing prevents corrosion and allows for the easier reading of the scale. Would it be nice to have them all the same hex code of blue and same brilliance - sure
Does it affect anything - no
Do I care personally - No - I have other things to be OCD about, this isn't even in my top 1000 of tools/woodworking things to care about

I have no idea if I am in the majority or minority - but I buy tools to perform a function, so long as they do - I am happy

Also - i am one to buy seconds or manufacture defects, just to save $$ and most of them are comestic blemishes, I just think it gives the tools "Character"

Im with you..I have no time to write long complaints…or quote goggle searches,
…. to busy using tools (that work really well) that , as advertised…perform a function I need or want…not looking for every tool to match in color

 

[Neil Lickfold]

The biggest problem, is not the annodising chemicals, but the chemical composition of the alloy itself. Variances in the material will produce what is seen, especially if any recycled material is used in that batch of extrusion or billet. For annodised window frames for example, they are made from virgin extruded material. The powder coated ones, the extrusions are made using the recycled material in the billet before it is extruded. Some companies only use virgin material for all extrusions. The virgin material is more expensive.