Advice sought on jointing options

[AstroKeith]

I'm about to embark on making a unit to fit under a flight of suspended cabinets. CAD image below. It will be 2m wide, 300mm deep, and 400mm tall. Material 10mm thick solid oak.

As you can see its a mix of 'pockets' many to store wine. Lots of end panel joints.

I will also have to make up the basic 300mm wide panels from 150mm planks. More joining.

Some might say 10mm is thin, but it will suit the rest of the room. I figure with all the sections, each of which are relatively small, it will be stable enough. Simple bending calculations say it will take the weight. It wont have a back, except for in the wine storage sections. It will have a substantial side to side runner underneath.

So what are my options for joining? My usual route would be to biscuit join the 150mm planks to each other. Then dowel (6mm) all the other joins. I would have liked to have tried sliding dovetails or dados, but I reckon it will weaken the panels too much.

I don't have a Domino, and would love the excuse to buy one, but it looks like it wont work on panels this thin?

I have a table saw, table router, OF1400, Kapex

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[cpw]

I'm about to embark on making a unit to fit under a flight of suspended cabinets. CAD image below. It will be 2m wide, 300mm deep, and 400mm tall. Material 10mm thick solid oak.

As you can see its a mix of 'pockets' many to store wine. Lots of end panel joints.

I will also have to make up the basic 300mm wide panels from 150mm planks. More joining.

Some might say 10mm is thin, but it will suit the rest of the room. I figure with all the sections, each of which are relatively small, it will be stable enough. Simple bending calculations say it will take the weight. It wont have a back, except for in the wine storage sections. It will have a substantial side to side runner underneath.

So what are my options for joining? My usual route would be to biscuit join the 150mm planks to each other. Then dowel (6mm) all the other joins. I would have liked to have tried sliding dovetails or dados, but I reckon it will weaken the panels too much.

I don't have a Domino, and would love the excuse to buy one, but it looks like it wont work on panels this thin?

I have a table saw, table router, OF1400, Kapex

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On a 10mm thick board you should be able to use a DF500 with a 4mm domino.  If I were trying to do that, I would make a 5mm shim board; have the domino base which is 10mm from the center of the cut on a table, my board to join on the shim board, and plunge.

It would work, but I'm not sure that it is the best tool.  Maybe you can just cut a groove with your table saw, then insert an 1/8" spline to aid with alignment and glue surface?

 

[AstroKeith]

It would work, but I'm not sure that it is the best tool.  Maybe you can just cut a groove with your table saw, then insert an 1/8" spline to aid with alignment and glue surface?

Does seem like I'm not going to be able to justify that Domino  [unsure]. I like the 1/8" spline suggestion rather than biscuits. Thanks.

 

[JonathanJung]

Do you have a dado stack, or a guide rail for the of1400? I would consider making all the main boxes with dados and rabbets, then the end 9-hole dividers on the own using half-lap or egg-crate joints. Even just a 2mm dado and/or rabbet is deep enough to locate panels. Properly clamped it would be strong.

 

[JimD]

I would use shallow dados to locate the pieces.  Glue is sufficient to hold them.  But dominos could be used to strengthen the joints.  I have a DF700 and an adapter for the smaller bits but I haven't bought a 4mm bit yet.  If you put in some dominos it could make assembly easier.  If you can sneak in some screws where they will not show the could really make it easier to assemble.  Assembly looks like the biggest challenge to me on that piece. 

 

[AstroKeith]

Thanks for all the advice and ideas.
I've tweaked the design, mostly for aesthetic reasons, but it also means that all joins are now under simple compression. So I think simple dowelling will work fine, and assembly should be easier too. Here's an update of the design.
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[mkasdin]

Look at rob cosman on YouTube. He recently did a joint similar to this. It was basically the two pieces inserted into each other by removing the opposite notch, similar to a groove in a bridal joint? I would probably go thicker on the material and use a domino 4-5mm. The 4mm is not an ideal glue joint? I would do a dado or a full length mortise or a spline cutting a groove in each. Lots of options. Try doing a smaller mock up of a section and see what works best with your tools and skills....

 

[AstroKeith]

So thanks again for all the advice & suggestions.

The timber arrived and so I have been using some spare bits to try out the joints, think i'm happy. but feedback always welcomed BEFORE I start cutting all the rest!

I joined the 150mm wide planks together by a single table saw kerf up the edges and inserting a slither of the oak (3mmx10mm) along the whole length. Worked nicely but need to be careful with the glue since its impossible to wipe it all off when its in the panel clamps.

At 10mm thick by 300mm deep, there is a good chance of warping over time. But at only 10 thick I didn't have much to spare for a dado slot. So my compromise was just a 2mm deep slot, plus a number of 6mm dowels. Some pieces have dado slots on both sides. The slot should just be enough to stop warping, and the dowels will make sure its stays tight. Photo of trial pieces below.

I'm going to spend the rest of the day laying carpet, but tomorrow I'm starting on the project at which time I'm committed!

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[pixelated]

My first "real" project with my Domino was building a small spice cabinet with 1/2 inch and 3/4 inch Baltic Birch ply, it had 9ish small compartments built with the 1/2 inch with 3/4 in. sides. I used a lot of 4mm Dominos. If I were going to do it again, I'd do the joinery with dados, and perhaps half-lap joints

It was a good learning experience though. Thin material doesn't give you much leeway for placing a 4 mm Domino, and the adjustments on the machine make it seem like accommodating material less than 3/4-18mm was an afterthought. I had to come up with shims to  use on the fence for placing the Dominos accurately on edges, plus some jigs to line up the machine for mid panel holes.

 

[AstroKeith]

Thin material doesn't give you much leeway for placing a 4 mm Domino, and the adjustments on the machine make it seem like accommodating material less than 3/4-18mm was an afterthought. I had to come up with shims to  use on the fence for placing the Dominos accurately on edges, plus some jigs to line up the machine for mid panel holes.

I had definitely eliminated using a Domino, for the reasons you highlight. I'll get one someday!

 

[AstroKeith]

The project has just been finished, and I'm very satisfied with the result (and so is my wife which is more important!).

Working with the thin 10mm oak planks was at times difficult, but the end result is what I wanted - minimalist and unobtrusive.

On glue up I discovered that inserting 6mm dowels into the end of 10mm thick oak planks needed great care. Too much glue and the glue would either seep out through the open oak grain (not a real problem) but much worse could easily cause the oak to split under the hydraulic pressure of the dowel being a tight fit going into the hole and the glue having no where else to go.

Finished in Fiddes clear matt Hard Wax Oil.

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and one of it in situ

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[Cheese]

That turned out nice.  [smile]  I really like the revised base structure, it anchors it to the floor better.  [big grin]

 

[ChuckM]

Two kinds of projects are more than challenging than the usual ones: the bigger ones like yours and the very small ones.

Do you have any glue-up process photos to share?

 

[AstroKeith]

Two kinds of projects are more than challenging than the usual ones: the bigger ones like yours and the very small ones.

Do you have any glue-up process photos to share?

Sure, plus some lessons learnt....

Key was glueing up in stages, yet temporarily using future pieces to make sure they would fit later and be straight.
Keeping track of the vertical segments so the grain matched.
You can never have enough clamps!
The Veritas panel clamps worked above expectations.
Time spent on jigs was repaid 10 times over.

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[ChuckM]

Well done on the assembly, and I'm sure "lesson learned" is more than true.  That's what I'd call a complex glue-up. The use of other means to support the case (since your bench wasn't long enough) was clever.

 

[nclemmons]

Very nice work!