Epay sauna bench

[Musatoved]

Hi guys here is the Epay bench that I had to build for one of my customer sauna, It probably my least  favorite wood to work  with , but apparently it last rally long time .

 

[richard.selwyn]

I have to repair a crappy slatted headrest for a client's sauna. It was glued and nailed with a nail gun. My question is, as the glue that the sauna maker used has already failed, what would anyone suggest as glue?

 

[Guy Ashley]

Richard, I would suggest Cascamite, or Polymite I think it is called now.

It is a urea formaldehyde powdered resin that is used in boatbuilding but a lot of joiners use it for exterior joinery or in situations where you are likely to get a lot of damp/humidity.

 

[richard.selwyn]

Richard, I would suggest Cascamite, or Polymite I think it is called now.

It is a urea formaldehyde powdered resin that is used in boatbuilding but a lot of joiners use it for exterior joinery or in situations where you are likely to get a lot of damp/humidity.

Thanks, I've got some of that if it hasn't gone off. If I can struggle across the courtyard to the shop i'll try it tomorrow
Happy Christmas
Richard

 

[j123j]

A tip from a country where 99,99% of households have saunas, dont use glue in the sauna.  [wink]

Here saunas are always constructed without glue and we've been making them for a loooooong long time.

I dont know about the sauna traditions in other countries but here the average sauna temp is about 80-100celsius (175-210 F).
And we've learned thru experience that the sauna isnt a place to use glue.

The constant temperature and humidity changes makes the wood live more and strains the adhesive.

 

[urbanecowboy99]

This is to the Original Poster--glue or no, I have another concern.  That is a beautiful bench you made, yes.  But epay (I assume you mean Ipe) is reported to cause skin and respiratory infection.  Sunday night I was talking to a contractor and a facilities project manager at a major university.  The contractor had framed a deck with PT lumber, and then the PM brought in another guy to lay down 4000 sq ft of ipe in a courtyard (yes, a very big decking surface).  The guy refused to wear protective gear or clothing, and he suffered orange poison-ivy like burns on his exposed arms (from the sawdust and carrying the boards, apparently), respiratory problems, and (I am not making this up) his grey hair turned  orange-y.  A lot of tropical woods are well known to cause allergic reactions, and Ipe may be another (it is listed as such on some sites).   

So, Ipe in a sauna?  Coming in contact with sweaty delicate parts? 

 

[Ken Nagrod]

This is to the Original Poster--glue or no, I have another concern.  That is a beautiful bench you made, yes.  But epay (I assume you mean Ipe) is reported to cause skin and respiratory infection.  Sunday night I was talking to a contractor and a facilities project manager at a major university.  The contractor had framed a deck with PT lumber, and then the PM brought in another guy to lay down 4000 sq ft of ipe in a courtyard (yes, a very big decking surface).  The guy refused to wear protective gear or clothing, and he suffered orange poison-ivy like burns on his exposed arms (from the sawdust and carrying the boards, apparently), respiratory problems, and (I am not making this up) his grey hair turned  orange-y.  A lot of tropical woods are well known to cause allergic reactions, and Ipe may be another (it is listed as such on some sites).   

So, Ipe in a sauna?  Coming in contact with sweaty delicate parts? 

No pictures please!  [eek]

 

[Sparktrician]

This is to the Original Poster--glue or no, I have another concern.  That is a beautiful bench you made, yes.  But epay (I assume you mean Ipe) is reported to cause skin and respiratory infection.  Sunday night I was talking to a contractor and a facilities project manager at a major university.  The contractor had framed a deck with PT lumber, and then the PM brought in another guy to lay down 4000 sq ft of ipe in a courtyard (yes, a very big decking surface).  The guy refused to wear protective gear or clothing, and he suffered orange poison-ivy like burns on his exposed arms (from the sawdust and carrying the boards, apparently), respiratory problems, and (I am not making this up) his grey hair turned  orange-y.  A lot of tropical woods are well known to cause allergic reactions, and Ipe may be another (it is listed as such on some sites).   

So, Ipe in a sauna?  Coming in contact with sweaty delicate parts? 

Cedar has similar properties.  The result is contact dermatitis, much the same reaction as poison ivy.  I cut up a cedar tree this past summer and found this out the hard way when the sawdust and oils came back on me from the chainsaw. 

[sad]

 

[mouppe]

But cedar is a very popular wood for use in saunas?

 

[Sparktrician]

But cedar is a very popular wood for use in saunas?

Yes, it is, and it's fine on the skin, but only after the bark and much of the bark-contained oils that cause the contact dermatitis are gone.  Sanding pretty much mandates the use of at least a dust mask, and preferably a respirator.  Check with your doctor if you need further clarification. 

 

[jakiiski]

The usage of any hard, dense tropical wood is not recommended to a sauna. It can burn the skin, if the sauna is properly heated (as it should, they are NOT supposed to be lukewarm). Lighter woods are the recommendation - they don't transfer the heat so rapidly.

 

[wubears71]

Looks nice, but I wouldn't want exposed skin to sit on it, but that's not your problem.  Great work on the bench.

 

[richard.selwyn]

A tip from a country where 99,99% of households have saunas, dont use glue in the sauna.  [wink]

Here saunas are always constructed without glue and we've been making them for a loooooong long time.

I dont know about the sauna traditions in other countries but here the average sauna temp is about 80-100celsius (175-210 F).
And we've learned thru experience that the sauna isnt a place to use glue.

The constant temperature and humidity changes makes the wood live more and strains the adhesive.

Sounds fair enough, but then should I just tell them to ditch the thing or do you think I could successfully screw it together.  The slats are not very wide, so I could only put a single screw in each and as it is just slats fixed to two side rails, I might have to try to add something to stop the whole thing racking. I can't really win, but the client is a big one who pays good money for cabinet making and then gives me most of the things that other people have xxxxxx up to repair, so  I I try to keep them happy.

Richard.

 

[Musatoved]

Well this is really educational for me.  [smile] So if epay or Ipe is toxic, Cedar is toxic what are you supposed to use  in saunas for benches? You guys In  Finland what type of wood do you use for benches in saunas? Or not just in Finland. 

 

[nickao]

I have sat on(is that correct English?)and handled a lot of wood and NONE has ever given me a rash. The dust yes, the wood itself, no.

Yeah, they are toxic, THE DUST. The lumber sanded and especially finished is not toxic in my experience. There may be a type of wood that is toxic to the touch, but I have never handled it.

Lumber just sat on, hardly worth worrying about. VERY, VERY few people would ever get a rash or get irritated by that.
If you are cutting it and dealing with the dust, yes, it is toxic, very much so. But just the skin touching a whole piece of lumber? The way I handle and am around Toxic Exotics I would be dead if that was the case.

I deal with touch, sit on and handle more exotic wood in a week that many non carpenters or wood workers would touch in a lifetime. I have literally slept on a pile of Massarunduba and it is the most toxic crap ever in dust form, I suffered no reaction at all from it. It is the floor in my home and is NOT finished at all. None of my family is effected at all. Two saw cuts and you can not breathe from the dust and cut several boards and you can literally get sick as hell.

So for me, I say do not worry about it unless it is the dust. Very few people and very few woods are dangerous for contact with human skin in my personal experience.

Green treated or other types of wood that are treated with a chemical of course are dangerous to touch. I never understood why it is allowed to be used as picnic benches and railings, etc.

 

[jakiiski]

Well this is really educational for me.   [smile] So if epay or Ipe is toxic, Cedar is toxic what are you supposed to use  in saunas for benches? You guys In  Finland what type of wood do you use for benches in saunas? Or not just in Finland. 

Well, the most commonly used ones in Finland are:
- kuusi aka knot free spruce (picea abies), Note! Has to be knot free, otherwise you might get hot resin to your private parts1
- leppä aka alder (alnus), both plain and heat treated
- haapa aka aspen (Populus tremula) both plain and heat treated
- heat treated pine (heat treatmet removes the resin, changes also color to a darker one)
- Western Red Cedar, jättiläistuija (Thuja plicata) - is really used as well, it's especially popular in public sauna's at the swimming stadions etc. where there is high wear and tear as it tolerates the hot and humid environments rather well. It's quite expensive in Finland however, as it has to be imported.
- Eucalyptus is also imported from Southern America, mainly Brazil.
- Abachi (Triplochiton scleroxylon) has also been popular, nowadays it's a bit endangered and it smells rather bad in the beginning at least

Seems the fashion now (at least in Finland) is to go for dark woods, for example spruce is commonly treated to be almost black (mimicking a smoke sauna look) with some sort of stain (non-toxic).

Basicly any wood is good, that
- does not splinter easily
- does not emit resins
- is of low density, usually indicating low heat retention
- tolerates hot & humid environment

Hidden in there is also a very brief vocabulary of the tree species in Finnish.

 

[biemme]

Hello,
I am an Ipe reseller and was asked to use Ipe in a sauna. Do you think it will be suitable in the end? I am not asking if an alternative could be better, just if Ipe won't give any problem in the future. Do you think it is ok to install it with Ipe joists, clips and screws as for decking?
@ Eduard M: what was your experience with an Ipe bench in a sauna?

thank you in advance for your help guys!