Euro Cabinets 101-2 A Beginner's Guide

[Brice Burrell]

  Hey Mike, I can tell you that the LR32 sys is a great investment if you have some cabinets to make. I use the LR32 to drill hinge cup holes with the Festool 35mm bit. The bit is pretty aggressive, so a slower speed should be used on the router. I use the 1 or 2 speed setting with good results (no burning). There is a lot of companies making different hinge location jigs right now, but my thought is why bother to spend the extra money when the LR32 will do the job just as well. My 2 cents.

Patrick, I would also like to hear your opinion.

 

[greg mann]

Patrick,

I guess the plywood is thinner around my neck of the woods. I just bought the same bit set and the groove was perfect for the 1/4 inch plywood I had on hand. Who knows what the next sheet will be like. I did need to re-shim the bearing on the rail bit to get a better fit on the joint. The tongue was .010 (.25mm) thinner than the groove. I like the look of these joints. In pine like your doors it would look right at home in a more rustic setting while in a fine close grained wood like maple or cherry it could have a very modern look. I am looking forward to seeing how the pattern can be dressed up or down with various panel treatments. A nice refreshing look. Thanks again for all the work you have put into this. John was right when he commented on how much it takes to make a presentation flow so well.

Added thought: Have you tried the special roundover bit that goes with this rail and style set? It allows for even more variability.

 

[Overtime]

Good points guys, and it brings up the hinge selection used here. I used Blum hinges that require 8mm holes along with the 35 mm cup for the Inserta type hinge. So one would need to drill 8 mm holes for those. A hinge requiring screws for mounting would replace the 8 mm holes needed.
 The LR 32 SYS comes with every thing needed (less the rail) to get all this done, as Brice points out. Using a screw mounted hinge cup assembly. The only draw backs are the set up for the cup drilling and not being able to drill the 8 mm holes if you wanted to use the Inserta type hinge.

 A big stumbling block for me was the hinge cup hole assembly process, I just didn't get it. And the hinge hardware ? How come the hole distance is not 32 mm ? Why are some of them 8 mm ? what happened to the 5 mm ? What happened to the 32 mm ? Why is there not an 8 mm bit in the LR 32 SYS set ?  How far from the edge of the door do you start ? What product line hardware ? So I got the LR 32 SYS and only after Mirko's post did it fall into place for me.  After playing around with the components of it I slowly caught on. But I was not satisfied with the hinge cup drilling process.

I have looked very closely at the Hettich offerings including their cabinet program that automatically suggests & selects the proper hardware options as you go. But I found the Blum product line to be more accessible.

 I chose the Blum Ecodrill partly out of frustration but mainly because it was the fastest way for me to get beyond the stumbling point of this process. And also because of the hinge type that I wanted to use : Inserta and various others that utilise the hole pattern.  I found Blum's information and tooling "understandable". And the tool itself. It is like the Festools, great accuracy for small portable tool. Doing the same process that multi thousand $ machines do.  

 I would only get the LR 32 set and save the $ to get a hinge boring jig if I were to do it again. I have had the Ecodrill only for a month or so. And after I got it I was drilling the doors within seconds, perfect every time right out of the box. Since the pieces fell into place for me, I have been cranking out upper cabinets like crazy. Since it is all fresh and new to me I thought I could show the process here. I'm glad to see that this info may help others that plan to make some themselves.        

 

[Overtime]

Greg , glad to hear your opinions on the bit set. Your comments reflect my thoughts of the "look" perfectly. That other bit is on my wish list and I'm looking forward to using that. Thanks for the compliments.

 

[Doug Anders]

Great job. This is a great thread.

By the way, what is the part number for the special roundover bit that goes with this rail and style set?

Thanks!

 

[Overtime]

Thanks Doug, We're talking about Festool Panel Raising bit # 491138.

An outstanding thread. Nice work telling the step-by-step. I know well how difficult that is. Keep em coming. We will never have to much of that.

Thanks John, I have been reading your site Woodshopdemos for a couple of years at least. My introduction to "Festool" was from your presentations on them. And of coarse with the help of your assistants, the tool learning curve process is made easy. 

 

[Overtime]

The 32 mm system used on this project is just a simple version of the many uses of it. But if you stay within the boundaries of a few basic measurements used here you can get similar results.

  The key measurements are the 5 mm holes spaced 32 mm from CL to CL located 37 mm from the front edge of the board. This was done using the LR 32 set. The 96 mm distance from the bottom and tops of the doors will always put your hinge hardware in alignment with the "system holes" on the side panels so long as your sides and doors are the same length of any size increment of 32 mm

  Door hinge cup hole pattern drilling (35 mm cup hole and placement) can be achieved with the LR 32 SYS complete set. But plan on using a screw mounted hinge cup assembly. And a little more time for set up and bit changes. There are many makers of concealed hinge cabinet door hardware. And there are also many drilling jigs that will speed up and simplify this step. It can also be performed at the drill press at little cost.  The Blum Ecodrill is a very expensive tool and is not necessary to complete this process. But if you will be making cabinets and casework requiring concealed hinge hardware this is one of many options. 

  Using this method makes everything Work. After completing your first cabinet box using this method you will see the benefit of the 32 mm system. You can make your sides and doors any length you like but if you do not use increments of 32 mm for your door and side parts you will have a little more work to do. But making changes to customise your needs will be much clearer after completing at least one simple project like this, staying within the boundaries of the system. Alterations such as reveals and overlays will fall into place as the hands on use of the process and hardware will show.

  I found it interesting that while I have a well equipped shop including a sliding miter saw station, I have gravitated towards the Festools. They were used for almost every step in this project. The MFT was a main feature in most of the machining of the parts. It was not planned to be an all Festool project but the tools work so well together. The quality of both the tools and the results they perform is outstanding. I find that they speed up the proficiency process in a smooth and reliable way.
Also interesting was my use of the combination of both Metric and Imperial numerical systems as I slowly adapt to the mm system.

Thanks to John Lucas, and Jerry Work for the great write ups on the Festools and also to Mirko and Brice and to all that continue to share and expand the knowledge base here. For those that have not had the opportunity to work side by side with a professional craftsman as in an apprenticeship setting, this is the next best thing.

 

[greg mann]

Thanks Doug, We're talking about Festool Panel Raising bit # 491138.

Actually Doug, I was talking about roundover bit #491131 but I certainly would like to see the profile from the panel raising bit that Patrick is referring to. The #491131 roundover produces the same ovoid shape as the rail and style bit with which Patrick made his doors. He left that treatment off, which goes to show that one can create a lot of variety with this set even before the panel is considered.

Patrick, If you have that panel raiser I would certainly like to see the profile it creates. The catalog pics are too hard to discern.

 

[woodshopdemos]

Thanks Doug, We're talking about Festool Panel Raising bit # 491138.

An outstanding thread. Nice work telling the step-by-step. I know well how difficult that is. Keep em coming. We will never have to much of that.

Thanks John, I have been reading your site Woodshopdemos for a couple of years at least. My introduction to "Festool" was from your presentations on them. And of coarse with the help of your assistants, the tool learning curve process is made easy. 

OT - very nice words and thoughts for this old guy.  When I am finding it more and more difficult to keep it going, words of encouragement like yours does do good. (I think that is English.)

 

[Dave Rudy]

words of encouragement like yours does do good. (I think that is English.)

British maybe, or Australian?  You're hanging around this forum too much John.  Need more time with assistants.

 

[Roland Chung]

Patrick,

If you ask a dozen woodworkers how to build a cabinet, you'll get 13 opinions.  I build cabinets using several different techniques and I always have my eyes open for a better way.  I really like how you have summarized the 32 mm system of building. 

I just finished using one of the techniques that you described.  I used the Domino to help with alignment and then pocket screws to hold the case together.  It worked perfectly the first time and there was very little dust compared to using rabbets and dadoes for alignment.  It is always slower to try something different than one is used to, but this is something that I think I will use often.  And it helps justify my Domino purchase.

I will continue to scrutinize your thread and try to incorporate more of your ideas.  Thanks for the excellent documentation.

Roland

 

[gkeas]

For those of us too destitute (from other recent purchases) to buy a Domino, could decent results be achieved using dados & rabbits?  I read somewhere that using these in plywood weakens it a bit, and shouldn't be done.  Any advice?  Thanks.

 

[semenza]

For those of us too destitute (from other recent purchases) to buy a Domino, could decent results be achieved using dados & rabbits?  I read somewhere that using these in plywood weakens it a bit, and shouldn't be done.  Any advice?  Thanks.

Hi,

    Well yes, technically it weakens it a bit, any wood, plywood, or material will be weakened were the dado is. Simply because      it is going to be thinner in that spot and more able to flex. But you will be filling in the dado or rabbet with the piece that is being joined to it. So I think that any weakening is pretty much nullified. It can't bend at the dado with the other piece of wood in the way (hope that makes sense).  I use dados and rabbets on plywood constructed cabinets and bookcases all the time with no trouble.

Seth

 

[gkeas]

Hi,

    Well yes, technically it weakens it a bit, any wood, plywood, or material will be weakened were the dado is. Simply because       it is going to be thinner in that spot and more able to flex. But you will be filling in the dado or rabbet with the piece that is being joined to it. So I think that any weakening is pretty much nullified. It can't bend at the dado with the other piece of wood in the way (hope that makes sense).  I use dados and rabbets on plywood constructed cabinets and bookcases all the time with no trouble.

Seth

What you said makes perfect sense, and is in line with what I thought should be true, but I thought I would ask.  Thanks for the response.

 

[Lou Miller]

I used dados and rabbets on cabinets for over 20 years. Never had a problem. The Domino just makes things so much easier and faster, IMO. Its one of those tools (the TS55 being another) that I really wish I had ten years ago. I didn't think I was going to want a Domino when they first hit the market (I said so here many times), but now that I have one, I can't put it down. I use it for everything. I know they are expensive and affording one is tough for a lot of folks. However, save those pennies and get it done one day, you'll be so glad you did.

 

[Lou Miller]

I tried in vain to get somebody to use one to flat-stud a wall today. We used a framing nailer and a BFH instead. Ugly

I like the Domino as much as the next guy. However, using it for any kind of framing is just a bit over the top, don't ya think? If I used dominoes for all of my framing work, I'd either have to get some wealthier customers, or go bankrupt. Its a fast tool, but it ain't anywhere near as fast as a framing nailer, or even a BFH.

 

[neoshed]

Brilliant thread mate.

Coming over from the UK I find working in imperial frustrating. Of course if you mention metric on most forums you usually have to duck for cover. The Euro system is so well thought out it's hard to beat.

I personally think if you're building even just a few cabinets the blum jig is worth while, especially if you're looking at the overall cost of things ( you pay 400ish for a ts55 )

 

[richard.selwyn]

Dave,

Vista!?!  Oh noooooooo, Dave.    (We will now have a moment of silence for Dave.)  May he rest in peace!  :'(

Perhaps it's not too late to ask for a copy of XP.  Much better OS, IMO.

Dan.

I thought Festool owners had to have Macs (sorry about that as I'm typing it on a PC! but I am as addicted to Apples as I am to Festools)

 

[The Woodentop]

What a load of bollocks! Festool make brilliant tools. Mac make toys for boys.

 

[bruegf]

Apple....    you can buy better but you can't pay more!

Fred