New line of Festool products at Home Depot...

[bill-e]

And since I didn't understand the statement "In cases where an employee is subject to both state and federal minimum wage laws..." I Googled some more and found out who is subject to the min wage:

Minimum-wage exceptions apply to workers with disabilities, full-time students, employees who receive tips, student-learners, and people younger than 20 during the first 90 days of their employment.

 

[nickao]

SO basically though KS has a min of 2.65 they actually get the Fed min of 6.55? If so it should state that.

Can the fed mandate  a rule like that on a state ?

 

[bill-e]

Yea, the Fair Labor Standards Act is mandatory....however, employers can employ people who are exempt from the FLSA.

I'm not covered by the FLSA even though I'm a federal employee, I'm "Exempt".  I don't know what the rules are for doing that but apparently they can do it

 

[marrt]

Guys, I think you are really missing the point on HD and all the big box employees.  Do you think these stores would really want to hire "professionals" for these departments?  Forget about the cost for a second and think about the risk alone.  I've heard people ask ridiculous questions in these places.  Trying to do things they have no business attempting.  All the popular do-it-yourself shows have convinced people they can rebuild their entire house in 30 minutes...and have fun doing it too.  These stores don't want their salespeople to know anything.  That way, they don't waste time giving advice (that no one is paying for) or put the store at risk.   

Now, for Rockler and Woodcraft, the story is different when it comes to selling tools.  Part of the huge premium you pay for these tools is supposed to be for the "advice" you receive from the dealer.  So, they should know their tools...and even the competitors tools.  If they can't speak with credibility about the tools to a professional, then they can't SELL the tools.  And at this price point, these tools need to be SOLD to many people.  If they can't sell the tool and it's benefits, then Festool would be better off having their tools at HD (sound familiar) where they can get more volume...assuming they were less expensive of course.

Other brands have struggled with this distribution problem.  Take Tormek for instance.  I mean...how large is the market for people willing and able the throw down a few hundred bucks for a dedicated sharpening system.  Now that the patents have expired and copycats have emerged, Tormek is even going further upstream.  Personally, I think it's a big mistake.  Better to introduce a less featured line and use their good name to OWN the category (I'm aware of the T3 but I mean even lower).  These would drive away the competitors because, at similar price points, who wouldn't buy the Tormek?  And if I want to drop $600 on a true Tormek T7 because I absolutely have to have the best, I would still have the option.

 

[Notorious T.O.D.]

Since I am the guy who is always picking on the Lowes and HD stores for there lack of the master plumbers and electricians I'll agree with your arguments to a large extent.  I am however just going on the the ads that they used to run on TV.

But I personally don't rank the salespeople at the 8-10 Woodcraft stores that I have purchased from in the past 20 years as much better.  They may be woodworkers and have a passion for woodworking but that does not make them good salesmen.  They have a couple guys who use Festool stuff in the local store and they are willing to try to show or explain about the tools but you have to start the ball rolling as a customer by asking them something or to show you  a tool.  I think they should be a little more aggressive in offering to show the tools or have someone try them out.  Just my humble opinion.

Best,
Todd

 

[sw1211]

Ditto on Woodcraft.  I was in there yesterday hoping to pick up a Steel City drill press.  Salesman #1, "Which model do you want?"  I had to explain they only have one model, they're coming out with another one in a couple of months.  Asst manager gets involved and tries showing me some others they have in stock.  He tries showing the Powermatic.  I comment that it's twice the price.  He then tries to explain the additional features.  "I think the digital display in front shows the speed and it has this thing on the side....."  A couple other simple questions resulted in, "I don't know."  I'm kind of stuck buying from them, this time, because I have GC's to use.

 

[nickao]

I was shopping wood at Woodcraft one time. The guy there said he was a woodworker for 30 years. Yet he never heard of Padauk or Santos Mahogany? I find that pretty unlikely(that he was a woodworker for 30 years).

That was only one out of many poor experiences at Woodcraft and Rockler. I only go to their stores now in very rare circumstances. To many times the salesman have let me down or actually aggravated me. I would rather go to a store and not even be approached anymore, it's a waste of my time.

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

That sucks nick, My woodcraft keeps getting better and better. 

 

[Notorious T.O.D.]

I guess I hope we are not talking about the same Woodcraft stores...lol

Todd

 

[Dave Ronyak]

Guys, I think you are really missing the point on HD and all the big box employees.  Do you think these stores would really want to hire "professionals" for these departments?  Forget about the cost for a second and think about the risk alone.  I've heard people ask ridiculous questions in these places.  Trying to do things they have no business attempting.  All the popular do-it-yourself shows have convinced people they can rebuild their entire house in 30 minutes...and have fun doing it too.  These stores don't want their salespeople to know anything.  That way, they don't waste time giving advice (that no one is paying for) or put the store at risk.   

In today"s litigious society in USA, an argument can be made that not providing proper advice or selling someone "an inherently dangerous" product is itself culpable negligence.  Add to that plaintiff's lawyers who specialize in personal injury and negligence cases and take/make cases based on contingency... .

Dave R.

 

[nickao]

Knowing the tool and how it differs from others is what salesman need know. They do not need know how or even to explain how an operation is done.

They do need to know the tools specifications and the general tasks the tools  are designed for, where in the store the tools can be found, the general competitors for the tool etc, thats it.

Salesman are not supposed to be able to tell you how to do something, just what the tools do.. My car salesman does not tell me how to drive. I take anything some salesman says with a grain of salt anyway.

I would like anyone to prove they cut their finger off becasue a sales "said " something, thats a pretty hard thing to do even if the salesman did, which they are or supposed to be trained not to do.

 

[Notorious T.O.D.]

So, if I ask the salesman if I can cut a 3/4" wide, 1/4" deep dado with the MFT3 and a TS55 what should his answer or demonstration be to satisfy my question and perhaps make the sale.

Best,
Todd

 

[nickao]

Demonstration, you are kidding right.

At both Rockler and Woodcraft they have never even turned a tool on for me unless it was a planned demonstration. One reason I do not go there. I asked to show me a drum sander in action, BOTH places would not do this for me on two different occasions. That is four times I tried!

I would say as a salesman "yes the Festool can do it no problem at all".

I  have an awful lot of tools and never have used one in a store unless it was a planned demo or at a woodworking show demo.

As a manage/owner I would not want my guys firing up these tools in store I would worry a kid would get killed or something.

If that is what you what no wander the darn Festools cost so much, a simple sales man should not have to do it right in front of me. I can see the overhead just increasing 5 fold if they did that for every person. From the liability insurance to the guys wanting 25.00 an hour to show the tools like that.

The insurance has to be outrages in these stores that let that occur. And those are the reasons I was given at both places that would not fire up the tools any old time. And I do understand that now.

 

[willywonka]

OMG... What is this all about. I absolutely cringe at the sight and sounds of Home Depot or large outlet stores.

Festool is about precision, craftsmanship, quality, durability and high level immediate support before and after purchases.  Try get your dewalt or porter cable or rigid junk fixed in a timely manner. They will no have a clue and end up sending you to some shady area of town where some repair center is located!

home depot is absolute crap sh*$ who don't even deserve capital letters in the name!

I can not begin to explain how many times I have had my time stolen from right under my feet because for crap and defective products, wrong advice etc. I can not believe someone knowing what Festool is all about would openly start a debate about it being over priced.

Sorry just my opinion like everyone else.

Just sad!

I've been trying to convince myself to buy Festool for some time and I just can't pull the trigger.  In a nut shell, I think they are way over priced due to their dealer network.  Don't get me wrong, I also think they are consistently the best designed portable power tool brand you can buy.  However, they are not twice as good as Bosch.  There are many examples where another product is as good or close enough:  Bosch jigsaws, Bosch sanders, Bosch portable drills, etc....  A new Bosch tool is often 1/2 (or less) the cost of a Festool because Bosch uses mass retailers and sells A LOT more volume. 

Originally, as an unknown brand in the US, Festool's current distribution strategy made a lot of sense.  And the Europeans always like specialty "shops" anyway because mass retailers were slow to develop in much of Europe.  However, now that the brand is known (several magazine reviews and lots of users), they could make a lot of money by introducing a sub-brand "powered by Festool technology" and lowering the price to "just" a 25% premium over Bosch (and Dewalt and the rest of the mainstream "professional" brands).  With Festool's current distribution, they have to pay the dealers a lot of margin (e.g., probably 40% on the tools and much more on the accessories).  However, by moving to mainstream distribution, they can significantly lower the margin (Home Depot usually can live with 20-25%) and provide the end user a better deal in order to drive volume.  Both Festool and the end user would win big if they took this approach.  I respect the dealers who were pioneers and carried the Festool brand initially.  However, Festool products include a lot of safety features and innovation that more people should be able to afford and enjoy.  End of Rant.

 

[Zach]

With Festool's current distribution, they have to pay the dealers a lot of margin (e.g., probably 40% on the tools and much more on the accessories).

40%?  We wish!  ;D  That would be nice, but that is way off...

Home Depot usually can live with 20-25%

Depot wishes!  Try 10-15% on average...sometimes 0, as they choose their 'loss leaders'.

 

[Red Lion]

I don't recommend Homedepot - but I would like to be able to get Fes a little easier ( I live in Canada). Lee Valley would be a great chain to sell Festool products.

 

[gearup75]

    From my experience...tools sold at the chain stores are built to their own specs and not the makers name on the box or label to cut costs.  Lower build tolerances etc.  If I see the Festool label in the depot or any other chain store...I would steer clear.  In fact...I would rethink my investment in the Festool line.  You might find it all available in the classified here

 

[Dave Ronyak]

How certain are people that tools of a certain brand distributed through HD or Lowe's or another big box store are different than tools of the same brand sold through dealers that focus on tools for professionals?  Have you confirmed that the model numbers are different?  It would seem to me that if the model number is the same, so is the tool.  The Makita drill I purchased through a tool specialist dealer was the same as that offered at my local big box store.  And some, if not most, tool manufacturers have multiple brand names and use a strategy of positioning one brand at a higher price point (and presumably quality) level and another at a lower price point (and presumably quality).  An example is Bosch and there lower priced Skill brand (old Model 77 worm drive saw being an exception).  DeWalt is positioned higher than Black & Decker (which I believe owns DeWalt and other tool brands).

Dave R.

 

[nickao]

They are only different if they have a a different model number. That is a fact. Go to "Berlands House of tools" and bring in a tool from HD and you will see  for yourself. If the model number is the same the tool is exactly the same and so are the repair parts.

I have purchased loads from HD and loads from other companies, the tools are the same. If you go to Sears they sell under Craftsman, but instead of the tool being less quality they are the same quality with the Craftsman logo.

 

[tbellemare]

I think what both of you said is true, for the most part...

I sell for a lot of brands and in general, if something in the design changes, the model number changes.

The traditional rule is that if form, fit, or function changes, the part number has to change (for backward compatibility). If there is only a change in documentation, process, or supplier, it is a revision.

I have found very few exceptions to those traditional rules of quality control in the tool world. I have seen exceptions, but never that I can detect from our favorite company... I think they go overboard in the opposite direction.

I wish I could say the same for everybody I represent.

Tom