New line of Festool products at Home Depot...

[mastercabman]

Remember a couple of years ago there was another European tool company who built themselves around customer service began selling at Home Depot?

WTF happened there?

The whole idea is to bring more "contractor" into the store.I'm not sure how good the sale is going,but the price is not different than going directly to Hilti.Most big construction company deals with a sales person and everything they need is delivered to job site.
The only time you get any discount with Hilti is if you have a big account.The more you spend,the more you save.
Also,they supposed to have a Hilti employee at HD to help with the sales.I have not seen one in a while,but if Festool ends up at stores like that,Are they going to have a Festool rep. to assist with the sale?  Or are they going to rely on their employees to answer questions about the product?

 

[marrt]

Many very good points made in the last few posts.

Marrt, get my point? Service matters.

Bob, I get your point exactly.  In fact, you are making my point too.  In both of the examples you gave, you were, or would be, forced to pay for the "service" of those employees whether you needed it, wanted it or received it.  In other words, you were paying a "tax" for something you didn't receive. 

I realize dealer support is important to some people, so let them pay for it.  For those customers, dealers can charge more than HD and the customers will gladly pay.  Many users have already posted that they are happy to pay more for the service and support they receive.  Just don't force me and everyone else to pay the same "dealer tax" for service and support I nether need nor want.  I do all my research on the internet, where I can get opinions from real users.  So, why should I be forced to pay for a service I don't receive?

 

[Tinker]

I recently went to Homeles Despot to get some paint for a christmas project for my grandson.  I had some specific questions that I felt needed some specific answers before i decided on my purchase.  I asked an isle person who seemed to know even less than I knew.  He finally suggested I go to the assistance desk where paint expspurts were stationed (that spelling of exsprts is not a mistook.  A definition of expert is > an ex is a has been.  a spurt is a drip under pressure).  Not much better info.  I finally went to a little family owned hardware store in another town that specialized in paint.  I went to one of the longtime salesmen and asked for help.  He took me to paint section and I started asking questions.  He just said to wait and he would get the paint expert.  eventually, a very pleasant young lady appeared who turned out to be very knowledgable, very helpful and very easy to talk to (er ah look at).  She not only gave me good advice but ended up mixing a very small can of paint to the exact color I wanted.  That sort of service does not happen at big box.

About "Uncle" Bob M.  I needed a small sander to get into tight corners and narrow places.  I called Bob and explained my problem.  He listened and suggested that i get the Fein MM instead of the Deltex.  I thought it over and got the measurements of the Deltex pad and decided to put my order in to Bob for the Deltex.  Oh, i eventually found a need for the Fein MM and bought same, but in the interim, I bought a whole lot more goodies from the guy I can trust.

In both instances above, the personal attention from the individual sales people goes a very long way towards future sales over a long period of time.

I once landed a very good account (masonry) when i told the customer I did not know how I was going to approach a certain project.  They told me they were impressed with my enthusiasm and were sure I would get it right no matter how difficult.

These are all important points I am sure Festool is thinking of in turning their sales over to a front line of close to the customer (either geographically or electronically) sales people such as Bob M and others.
Tinker

 

[KM]

WOW!!! Festool coming to a Home Creepo near me!? ABOUT TIME!!!

That would be awesome! Can't wait for some Cowboy Contractor buy the TS55, use it to cut 2 miles of wonderboard and when he's finished his job he returns it to HD, they wipe it down and put it back on the shelf. This way, I can come along and buy it the next week at a terrific 25 percent discount over current price!

Only problem is...2 months later when mind saw freezes because of all the concrete dust in the motor, HD tells me that the warranty is no longer valid and I have to contact the manufacturer.

Or how about when I go looking for some 1000 grit Platin for the RO125 and the kid looks at me like I have 3 heads. Heck, he couldn't tell me where the lighting section was last week.

As a hobbyist, I for one would hate to see Festool go the way of Big Box stores just so I can save a few bucks. Also, I doubt Festool would do this anywhere in the near future. However, If (a big if!) they did sell at HD, they would have a Festool rep at stores. They would have them there to jumpstart sales and after a few months Home Creepo would pull them from the stores and it's back to "I'm sorry, I don't work in that department"

The whole idea sounds simply Wonderful!!

Ken

 

[Bob Marino]

Many very good points made in the last few posts.

Marrt, get my point? Service matters.

Bob, I get your point exactly.  In fact, you are making my point too.  In both of the examples you gave, you were, or would be, forced to pay for the "service" of those employees whether you needed it, wanted it or received it.  In other words, you were paying a "tax" for something you didn't receive. 

I realize dealer support is important to some people, so let them pay for it.  For those customers, dealers can charge more than HD and the customers will gladly pay.  Many users have already posted that they are happy to pay more for the service and support they receive.  Just don't force me and everyone else to pay the same "dealer tax" for service and support I nether need nor want.  I do all my research on the internet, where I can get opinions from real users.  So, why should I be forced to pay for a service I don't receive?

Marrt,
 
I am not trying to be contentious, but that was not my point. My point (points) is that these were high end (and frankly you should get quality service for anything purchased, regardless of price) businesses that did not have the personnel either interested or qualified to explain to me how/why/what their product offers that make it worth the extra $$. Not having someone there so qualified means a loss of sales through poor presentation. I understand that you want to approach it differently, but Festool has decided to approach sales and marketing in a whole nother direction. They want their dealers to compete on service rather than price, want their products dispayed correctly and so on. As Jim B stated, Festool used to sell directly and no longer does. There were reasons for that.

Bob

 

[Dave Ronyak]

Even if Festool products were available at the big box stores at 20 - 25% less than current prices, who besides us would be interested in them?  Those products would still be much higher priced than what most customers would think to be equivalents.  I can imagine many customers looking over the merchandise, e.g. circular saws and saying to themselves, why should I pay $350 for a 10A saw with a

 

[marrt]

My point (points) is that these were high end (and frankly you should get quality service for anything purchased, regardless of price) businesses that did not have the personnel either interested or qualified to explain to me how/why/what their product offers that make it worth the extra $$.

Bob, honestly, I realized that was the point you were making.  And it's a valid point too.  I was just trying to show that there's more than one "take away" from your experience.  It's hard to get good service anywhere these days...because most people don't want to pay for it (rightly or wrongly).

Festool has created a distribution strategy aimed at those that are willing to pay.  And that makes a lot of sense and I'm all for it.  But what about those who don't need it or can't afford it?  Must they be left with nothing...no options other than try to find a used Festool on eBay?  Can't Festool create a sub-brand "Powered by Festool Technology" that brings a lot of the safety features and systems approach to the rest of the market?  Does it have to be mutually exclusive?  I don't think so...as the Toyota/Lexus example shows.  Many companies use multiple brands to effectively serve different market segments.  Some do a poor job (GM) and some do a great job (Toyota).  Why can't Festool copy from the best in class and do the same?  I'm trying to make that case that it's possible.  And, if done correctly, everyone would benefit and Festool would have more money to develop innovative products and stay ahead of the competition.   

 

[fshanno]

Is Festool the only tool line you can't walk into Home Depot or Lowes and buy?  I may be wrong but I don't think you can get a Lie-Nielsen No. 5 bench plane at Lowes.  And how long am I going to wait until Home Depot starts stocking Powermatic?

 

[Jimhart]

I'm smelling a dead horse...........

 

[marrt]

And how long am I going to wait until Home Depot starts stocking Powermatic?

I'm glad you mentioned Powermatic.  Another good example of the use of multiple brands to serve different market segments... Jet and Powermatic.

 

[Ivans Dad]

Wow!  This is one of the best threads I have read in some time!
First off, thank you to Marrt for starting it.  
I find that lots of tool owners get very defensive about their tools being criticized for any reason.  That goes for all tool brands.   I think that whatever works best for the individual is what is best for them.  
Like everyone else here I used to think there was NO WAY that Festool tools could be "that good".  It took my local woodcraft a couple of years to talk me into it.  Like most, the dust collection was what finally did it for me.  My only regret in my festool purchases is that I did not do it sooner.  For me they are worth it.  Some I would pay double for.  
In the flooring part of my business we used to have to remove old finish from corners and stairs by hand with a paint scraper.  Now with the Deltex/Rotex combo we can do it at least 4x as fast.  I would gladly pay $800 for the Rotex and $500 for the Deltex if I needed to because for me it would be worth it.  By comparison, other flooring tools make festool seem cheap!  The two other things that make Festool worth it for me is the dust collection, which is the best on the market, and the enjoyment in use.  I use these tools every day to make my living and who doesn't want to enjoy their work as much as possible?  

Marrt, if the tools seem overpriced I would suggest trying them out.  If they still are not worth it to you then there is plenty of other tools out there for you.  I thought for years they were overpriced until I tried them and for me....

Also in my opinion if Festool is like a Lexus then the rest of the competition is more like a Pinto... with 3 wheels.

Just my opinion of course,  great thread.

 

[mastercabman]

My point (points) is that these were high end (and frankly you should get quality service for anything purchased, regardless of price) businesses that did not have the personnel either interested or qualified to explain to me how/why/what their product offers that make it worth the extra $$.

Bob, honestly, I realized that was the point you were making.  And it's a valid point too.  I was just trying to show that there's more than one "take away" from your experience.  It's hard to get good service anywhere these days...because most people don't want to pay for it (rightly or wrongly).

Festool has created a distribution strategy aimed at those that are willing to pay.  And that makes a lot of sense and I'm all for it.  But what about those who don't need it or can't afford it?  Must they be left with nothing...no options other than try to find a used Festool on eBay?  Can't Festool create a sub-brand "Powered by Festool Technology" that brings a lot of the safety features and systems approach to the rest of the market?   Does it have to be mutually exclusive?  I don't think so...as the Toyota/Lexus example shows.  Many companies use multiple brands to effectively serve different market segments.  Some do a poor job (GM) and some do a great job (Toyota).  Why can't Festool copy from the best in class and do the same?  I'm trying to make that case that it's possible.  And, if done correctly, everyone would benefit and Festool would have more money to develop innovative products and stay ahead of the competition.   

marrt,i'm sorry but it does not make a lot of sense.Toyota introduced Lexus,      "A STEP UP IN LUXURY"(more expensive)  What you are asking is for Festool to come up with a cheaper,more affordable tools.????????????
But if they do,What do you expect out of them?        A $600.00  SCMS?      If festool makes a saw more affordable,who is going to buy the Kapex?  Festool spend a lots of time,and ideas to create this saw.    That's why we are paying big for those kind of tools.Not just for customer service.

Also.how do we know that what festool is asking for is really expensive?      What if the other tools are just plain cheap?
fshanno made a point with Lie-Nielsen,    What if they started to make the same product but cheaper? 
If you don't want to spend a lot of money for a vac,then buy something cheaper.why does it have to be a Festool sub-product?
Why don't you ask Dewalt or Milwaukee to come up with a step up,better,more like Festool,  product?    I bet they will start to charge a lot more money than you see know.

 

[Ivans Dad]

A point I would like to make is that if you can't afford it, or don't see the worth, then don't buy it!  Every person on here who is a Festool owner could write a novel on why they are worth what they paid or more.  If you don't think so then buy something else. 
Marrt, I can see your point of view on Toyota/Lexus, or Powermatic/Jet and agree with you.  In my opinion though the difference between what Festool does and the competition is much greater than that.  You don't see Powermatic of Jet make a $75 chopsaw or a $99 tablesaw to compete with Delta.  All of these companies operate on price points.  What I love about Festool is that they ignore this and choose to make the best possible tools they can.  I do agree though on one point you made.  It is my only real complaint about Festool and that is the accesories.  I can see why they charge what they do for the tools, but a $20 hose splitter?  There is no R&D for that and it does cost $0.05 to make!  I wish Festool would not take advantage of their customers this way but they do.
Also in response to the point about DeWalt tools going down in price I have seen the opposite.  The 12" slider and the 13" planer have both gone up in price since I bought them.

 

[Notorious T.O.D.]

I think a huge part of this discussion is the value that we each as individuals put on the things in our lives.  If I told everyone on this forum that I could sell them a brand new Delta Unisaw for $150 I bet most of the members would consider this to be a great deal.  That is based only on 2 pieces of information, the price $150 and what the word Unisaw means to them.  Most would realize that the $150 is a fraction of what this saw would normally cost and Unisaw would have its own meaning but I think to most it would be a very positive vision that is brought to a woodworker by that term.  But if I was to offer those same to words to my dad he would probably care less.  The $150 would mean even less to him than it would to most of us as he has been financially very successful, so it is not so much a matter of cost to him.  Unisaw would not mean that much to him as he is not a woodworker nor interested in buying a table saw so even though to most of us this may be a great deal to him it has little or no value.  Yet he might go out and pay $10,000 for a small painting that when I look at it all I see is the collection of Festool that I could get and enjoy for that money.

Two different value systems but each is right for the person.  It is the value that each places on the items that makes most of the difference.

Best,
Todd

 

[Notorious T.O.D.]

It is my only real complaint about Festool and that is the accesories.  I can see why they charge what they do for the tools, but a $20 hose splitter?  There is no R&D for that and it does cost $0.05 to make!  I wish Festool would not take advantage of their customers this way but they do.

I agree that some of the Festool accessories seem overpriced but because of their marketing plan they are not going to sell tons of some of these accessories also.  So, I am glad that some of these accessories are offered by Festool and I have a choice to either buy them or not.  No one is holding a gun to my head telling me that I have to buy them...but if I see the need and value I have an option, which is better than not having the option in my view.  I recently purchased the systainer that is to hold router bits for $68.  Now this seems like a lot for a plastic storage case and a piece of foam with a bunch of holes in it.  But once I got it home and filled with my bits I found that I liked having everything in one place and the way the systainer fits in with all the other systainers for my Festools....part of the whole systems approach I guess. Plus when I need a cutter I don't have to go looking in 5 different places as before as they are all organized now....and there is additional value in that for me at least.

Best,
Todd

 

[Dave Ronyak]

Can you buy another Y-splitter for vacuum hoses that has antistatic capability molded in the material itself?  I've got a box full of mostly useless plastic dust collection fittings purchased from "?Peachtree?"at one of the traveling WoodworkingShows.  They are crap.  Poorly designed -- no taper on the ID or OD surfaces and no flexibility or resilience to the plastic.  So if you don't luck out finding one of the exact size needed, they don't fit.  And if they do fit, they need a jumper wire to dissipate the static.

Festool pricing for some of their accessories is possibly analogous to what others do in their businesses.  They try to capture more revenue/profits from accessories to help fund the overall R&D and other expenses of the enterprise.  Why does a doctor or hospital charge so much for a single aspirin tablet?

Dave R.

 

[wnagle]

Notorius TOD,

Those paintings your dad buys?  Maybe they should sell them at Home depot too...  at a discount since I think they are overpriced...   Of course, I couldn't buy one even at 95% discount...

 

[Notorious T.O.D.]

I know what you mean Wayne...  Even if I could get one for $500 at HD I probably would go for a Festool or lie neilsen plane instead...  Its just what I like vs what he likes and values...and for him there are people who are buying $200,000 paintings and even $2,000,000 paintings that he can't afford.  It is scary when you get into the world of art and antiques and see the kind of money that chases these things around...

So, there are probably people that think that we are just playing around with our Festools and we should get some real tools...

Best,
Todd

 

[Frank Pellow]

...
So, there are probably people that think that we are just playing around with our Festools and we should get some real tools...

Best,
Todd

And I very much doubt that any one of them with any one of their sanders has gotten achieved the value for money that I have acheived with my Festool Rotex sander over the last 4 years.

 

[Notorious T.O.D.]

Well, as good as the Festool sanders appear to be, and I only have one at this point, I still think the best bang for my buck has been my 16" wide belt sander.
Now it will do work and do it well too....and fast...

Best,
Todd