Talk Me Out of Returning the Domino 500 - Not happy with it

[ctc1111]

Interesting, I just looked it up and that looks like a VERY useful attachment for it. Shocking they don't provide a similar attachment for the insane money the unit costs. And I was really taken by the one single cutter head provided with the unit.. Really, can't give us the 4 or 5 piece set? I felt like I might as well bend over, take out the vaseline, and plan on a long night when I was stroking that check in Woodcraft... And then I get home to see only one bit in the case.  

I thought you said you purchased the Assortment of Dominos....  It comes with 5 bits.

Oh I did, all I'm saying is that for the money I would expect the assortment of bits to come with that. Not the almost $300 accessory.

I'm not complaining about festool prices on most of their products, but the Domino really seems to be where they nail ya. Maybe because there is nothing else like it? Whereas Dewalt's similar tracksaw is priced very close to the festool..

Again, I'm not a stranger to paying for quality tools. I even own a Snap On tool box that was well over $10,000 empty.. But like others writing into this thread have brought up, one thing that makes me struggle with this tool is the price. Its not the tool alone, or the price alone. But when you consider the tool for the price, thats when I start to have issues with my purchase.

 

[ctc1111]

ctc1111 wrote "I even own a Snap On tool box that was well over $10,000 empty"

Holy cow, my entire shop's worth of tools and the shop structure itself don't even add up to that.

I'm amazed sometimes too... She is pretty, but would I do it again? Nope. There was a time when I was really hardcore into restoring cars so I got all set up during that time. Now its just an average use. One of those items I hope to pass down to my kids someday should I end up having any.

 

[amt]

One thing to think about:  I don't think the domino assortment kit is returnable.  Others will no doubt correct if I am wrong.

I share you same frustration about the alignment and getting mating surfaces to match perfectly.  It is incredibly easy to be just a smidge off when plunging.  My first project was a table, and every single board for the top was dominoed, and every single one was off by about a 1/32" against the adjacent board.  I was super freaking pissed off!  I ended up having to do a lot more work getting the table top flat than I would have otherwise done without the domino (without the domino, I probably would have used something to align to panels during the glue-up).  However, over time I have gotten better.  Honestly, I am not 100% confident I can get it right every time.  At times I have resorted to clamping pieces to the domino fence just to make sure there is zero movement.  I also got the domi-shims (for the XL which is what I have) which helped by providing a much larger surface to mate against the board.  Now is someone could just turn that into a vacuum plate....

 

[Ajax]

Return it.  Life is too short and Festool is too expensive to be unhappy right out of the box.

My 500 was fantastic right out of the box.  Was so impressed that I bought a 700.  When it arrives I'll test it out.  If it leaves me unsatisfied, it goes back.

 

[Birdhunter]

What about the thickness guide on the Domino? I realize it may not be quite as accurate or as solid to use, but doesn't it serve essentially the same purpose?

The thickness guide (fence) on both Dominos serves the same purpose as the Domiplate (500 unit) and the Domishim (700 unit) except the Seneca accessories are only for 3/4" and 1/2" stock while the thickness guide is variable.

I find the Seneca accessories give me far better vertical registration than the Domino's fence. I know the tops of the pieces I'm joining will  be perfectly level when I use the Seneca accessories.

Just a tip I learned from Halfinchshy's video, when adjusting the fence height, have the fence all the way up. Get the height set and then lower the fence to whatever angle you want. This procedure seems to get the fence square.

 

[Doug S]

I have owned a domino 500 since it first came out in the UK, could not manage without it now. If you have an out of level joint just glue a domino into the hole that is wrong, cut it off and try again.

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

Its a tool for alignment, not really structural joints.  I use one tight and the rest are loose.  No sense trying to cut 5 tight mortises on one piece. 

 

[peter halle]

I have always preached to posters that they should NEVER get a domino and then try it out on a for real project.  As has been written here, get some scrap and play.  No pressure.

I use my Festools to earn a living too.  For producing an income dealing with trim and other millwork where the rear isn't visible (think wainscoting ) then frankly I stick with pocket screws for the reasons that you mentioned.  I kept mine because I keep looking to the future and do come up with situation

I use my Domino much less than I thought I would as a trim carpenter.  I have used my MFT and my TS-55 much more.

The Festool 30 day trial was designed for situations just like yours.  Only you can decide.

Peter

 

[rvieceli]

My understanding of the 30 day return policies is that it only applies to power tools not the accessories. So you can return the Domino to the dealer but you'll have to sell the Domino assortment on your own.

 

[SittingElf]

That's OK... for the right price, I might be interested in a second domino assortment set! [tongue]

That being said, I will bet that he'll end up keeping the 500. And...like others, I'd strongly urge him to buy the domiplate as well as read the supplemental manual which I found priceless!

Cheers,

Frank

 

[ccarrolladams]

Please remember that even for very experienced woodworkers there is a significant learning curve to becoming "at one" with the Domino.

Not only must you learn to work with the vibration of the Domino, you also must learn the strategy of designing your projects in ways to work to the considerable strengths of the Domino Floating Tendon System.

It can be done in 30 days nearly always. I highly endorse the Domiplate.

 

[NiteWalkerGR]

Its a tool for alignment, not really structural joints.  I use one tight and the rest are loose.  No sense trying to cut 5 tight mortises on one piece. 

I respectfully disagree.
Once glue is applied, it's no different from shop made loose tenons, which are equivalent to integral m&t joints.
One of the key things I had to teach my self when I got my domino was that a good amount of joints will require more than a single domino to equal the strength of a shop made loose tenon joint.
Plenty of strength.

I definitely agree about using one tight, the rest loose.
Wiggle room is good.

 

[fshanno]

Festool doesn't consider the Domino to be terribly expensive.  They are competing with Lamello.  The Classic X is $600.  Festool considers the small loose tenon to be better and more versatile than the biscuit so the extra $250 for the DF 500 is justified.  The Lamello Top 21 with it's extra features goes for around $1200.

But it sounds like maybe you'd be happier with a Dowelmax.  The kit is $250 which is a pretty good deal.  The Dowelmax is as accurate as a woodworker's ability to machine his parts.  And there is no technique to master, other than pulling the trigger on a drill.  And the joints are plenty strong.  It's just slower.

I'm sitting on a lounge chair I made using my Domino.  The joints are 10x50 stock dominos.  The chair has dynamic loading cause it is tilt swivel and it's on casters.  No metal reinforcing on load bearing joints.  I weight 290 pounds.  The chair is over a year old.  I think that settles the structural question.

 

[ctc1111]

I'm actually starting to consider the fact that there might be something wrong with the unit I received. The holes it is cutting are not clean at all, and I'm 100% positive I was gentle and it did not move while plunging. I went very slowly and gently.

I spent another couple hours last night with it, and it was just infuriating to use. Put me in a horrible mood and I had images in my head of introducing the thing to the concrete floor on a couple occasions. I did many joints (reusing dominos as to not use up too many from the set) and got maybe 40% of them to line up successfully, and of those the cut quality was horrible better than half. I checked the tightness of my bit, different depths, etc. with the same result every time. When I'm back at my computer, I'll post photos of the cut quality issues I was having as I took pictures of the work pieces.

All in all, there is no way it's not going back at this point. Even if it started working for me, already I have such a bad taste in my mouth from it that it is over in my book. I don't want $1200 in tool that makes me mad to look at, like another poster said, life's too short. Now let's see how my local Woodcraft holds up their end of the 30 day guarantee. I called last night and they seemed shocked and told me I need to wait until the manager is in, so we shall see.

 

[amt]

If the holes are not clean, then I'd say there is a very good chance the domino is not working right.  Any chance you can show a picture of the cuts?

 

[ctc1111]

I'm on my phone now, so Im not sure how to post a picture. When I'm at my computer later I'll post a few pictures.

 

[ctc1111]

I think woodcraft is going to give me an issue. I can just tell. I called and told them I'm coming up now with it. They seemed shocked as if they had no idea how to handle the situation. Then they told me the manager/franchise owner would be in next week and to come up then. Yea ok, why so I'm closer to or past the 30 days?

I'm headed up there in an hour or so, but I'm confident it will become a battle just based on my phone conversation a few moments ago.

I mentioned I don't want cash and that I'd be walking out the door with an equivalent value in tools and they seemed to think that would "make it easier to take a return".

I'll keep everyone posted.

 

[NiteWalkerGR]

It sounds like the bit may be broke.  I've cut quite a bit in purpleheart and the mortices were always clean. I'd swap the domino for another and give it another go.

Also, if you're still in the 30 day period, there's not much they can do but return it as you wish.

 

[Stoli]

I'm actually starting to consider the fact that there might be something wrong with the unit I received. The holes it is cutting are not clean at all,

Check the bit -- a broken bit can cause this kind of problem.

 

[grbmds]

I think woodcraft is going to give me an issue. I can just tell. I called and told them I'm coming up now with it. They seemed shocked as if they had no idea how to handle the situation. Then they told me the manager/franchise owner would be in next week and to come up then. Yea ok, why so I'm closer to or past the 30 days?

I'm headed up there in an hour or so, but I'm confident it will become a battle just based on my phone conversation a few moments ago.

I mentioned I don't want cash and that I'd be walking out the door with an equivalent value in tools and they seemed to think that would "make it easier to take a return".

I'll keep everyone posted.

If it is within the 30 days, I doubt they would give you a problem and especially if there is something wrong. I have bought many toold, including Festool from the Woodcraft store in Madison, WI and they are the best. Never any problems even with non Festool tools. Woodcraft itself has return policy but this one should be covered by Festool.