thinking about a kapex, your thoughts?

[Bird]

Well, I'm new to Festool--got sucked in by that sander offer in the fall. : )

I'm thinking about replacing my 10'' Makita slider with a Kapex for two reasons: the small size and dust collection ability.

I went to a local Woodcraft store where the "non-sales" person told me to buy a Bosch when I was looking at the Kapex and answered zero questions.

So here are some things I don't know. Does this saw use a special size blade?? Will my 10'' blades be useless?

Can you hook up a non-Festool vac and still have the vac power on?

How much space do you need to accomodate that vac hose coming out the back of the saw?

Should I just buy a Bosch and buy you all a beer with what I save?

 

[copcarcollector]

So here are some things I don't know. Does this saw use a special size blade?? Will my 10'' blades be useless? YES the Kapex uses its own size blade, pretty sure your 10" blades wont work, sorry

Can you hook up a non-Festool vac and still have the vac power on? YES, as long as the vac has this function

I know I did not answer all of your questions, but it's a start! I am sure others will chime in shortly, both pro and con about the Kapex. Remember that in N America, you have 30 days to beat the crud out of it and decide if it is right for you!

And,  [welcome] to the FOG

 

[Timtool]

It has it's own blade size indeed, 260mm a very odd size but at least it's made by leitz. So no "upgrade" costs, contrary to Bosch where you usually need to cash out for a proper blade.

The DC tube comes out of the back of the saw head and can rotate from left to right, the hose technically doesn't need any additional space behind the saw, you can place it against a wall no problem.

What Bosch model? None of theirs offers a package up to the Kapex's level but it's a matter of deciding if the plus points of the Kapex are worth that difference in cost for you.

 

[Weens1]

I can offer my perspective. You can get the same quality cuts with the Bosch, but not as easily. You will spend more time making sure everything is sqaure with ththe Bosch. Also, the dust collection is considered the best on the kapex.

But a lot of people like the Bosch axial glide. Check out the Wood Whisperer's video review. He compares the two quite well

As for the auto dust collection power, you can get that with any vac by adding the plug sold by rocker and others that allows you to plug in your vac and tool to the same plug. It's about $40. If you want the outlet built in to the vac, like festool, you can also look at offerings from Bosch, fein, Dewalt and maybe a few others. They just put a 110v outlet on the front of the vac.

For what it's worth, I love my Kapex, but it was costly

 

[DrD]

Agree with [member=10829]Timtool[/member] on all points.  Love my Kapex, and I literally use it daily. 

I have it connected w/ a 36mm non-antistatic hose to a CT26.  It is virtually flush with my shop wall, and takes up far less front to back space than most other scms's.  However, I will warn you with this set-up there is still saw dust to clean up; rough guess is that it gets ~85% of what is created.  FastCap sell a mustache that [member=8352]erock[/member] (PoplarShop) has a video on using.  I think he liked it, but can't remember.

As for starting the dust extractor automatically, eg CT or non-Festool, eg Fein, Bosch, etc., I was advised by Festool service to not use that function, but rather plug directly into the wall; thus, I start my CT manually, then start the Kapex.

There are other sources for blades for the Kapex, some less expensive, some more, but I have found no reason - quality of cut, durability, etc - to switch from Festool blades.

Hope this helps.

 

[RKA]

I was advised by Festool service to not use that function, but rather plug directly into the wall; thus, I start my CT manually, then start the Kapex.

[member=57769]TylerC[/member]
Can you confirm that?  This is the first I've seen a suggestion from Festool to avoid running the saw through the DE's.

[member=64135]Bird[/member]
The saw has a 30mm arbor, which is the primary issue.  All the local offerings are 5/8" and 1".  There are some aftermarket offerings in 30mm though, but the Festool factory blade is quite good as mentioned above.  The diameter of the blade is 260mm and a 10" blade is 254mm which isn't much of an issue. 

A 5-6' section of 36mm hose plugged right into the dust extractor works best to maximize air flow.  The longer length of hose reduces the airflow.  You can cobble your own together using a Bosch 35/36mm gray non-antistatic hose and purchasing the Festool hose ends which screw into the bosch hose. 

The Bosch glide saw is indeed a good option.  I don't personally have experience.  The only reservation is it's a boat anchor not a lightweight like the Kapex.  Dust extraction can be improved on it using that fastcap modification mentioned above. 

I'm not sure if it was clear above, however, the on/off functionality is actually built into the dust extractor, not in the Kapex.  You plug the kapex into the dust extractor, and when the extractor senses a current draw it turns itself on.  So you can get a third party product to give you that functionality (mentioned above) or you can get another brand of dust extractor that has the same functionality, but watch the amp limitations.  Some other manufacturers put absurding low limitations on the outlet on the dust extractor. 

 

[Frank-Jan]

The makita ls1013 I had before I got my kapex (and still have) uses the same blade and arbor size as the kapex blades so it's not that uncommon, but they probably sell the makita with a different bladesize in the US.
I once had to get a new blade for my makita in a hurry, and they only had Dewalt blades in stock, which were slightly smaller (255 mm if I recall correctly), whenever I needed to use that blade I just put a piece of wood against the fence as an auxiliary fence, so it would cut all the way through the material.

You can adjust the cutting depth of the kapex with a setscrew, so you wouldn't need to use an auxiliary fence, and I've read about people that had the arbor of their sawblades they already had rebored (I think they used a sharpening company that provided that as a service.)

 

[Gwerner]

I was advised by Festool service to not use that function, but rather plug directly into the wall; thus, I start my CT manually, then start the Kapex.

[member=57769]TylerC[/member]
Can you confirm that?  This is the first I've seen a suggestion from Festool to avoid running the saw through the DE's.

I too would like some confirmation from Festool on that, it's the first time I've heard it and I've been running using that feature with my Midi and Kapex for a couple years now.

 

[rizzoa13]

I have a kapex and my partner just got himself a Bosch glide. With that said we always default to the kapex of crown and other trim type cuts and go to the Bosch for anything large, especially bevel cuts.

The tooth count on my kapex is slot higher as it has a trim blade but even with a lower tooth count the kapex really really struggles through bevel cuts. Even in pre-painted filler pieces for cabinets which run 1" it'll burn. Granted that's some hard azz maple they send me.

I've hard motor issues with my kapex, I'm pretty outspoken about it. Pulling the trigger on my kapex and pulling the trigger on the Bosch are completely different. The Bosch just feels like a strong saw that isn't going to stop anytime soon. The kapex in contrast feels weak in use and gave me the feeling it could die even before I had a motor failure so the inherent feeling of quality just had never been there for me.

Now the kapex is the better saw HANDS DOWN for trim and for quality of cut. Dust collection is awesome and the ug cart and wings are just amazing compared to anything else on the market. What you really need to ask yourself is can you afford to replace it if it fails? Are you just starting out your business or are you rolling in capital? Are you doing mainly decks or custom finish carpentry? Take it all into account before just being the most expensive saw you can get.

 

[antss]

If you do site work and carry your saw around - the Bosch is waaaaay heavier.    So carrying around the Kapex takes less effort.

The biggest consideration for a 10" blade over a 260mm size is availability and cost.  At least in the USA.  I can find a 10" blade just about everywhere and the tooth count and geometry run the gammut. I'm in one of the largest metro areas in the U.S. and there are three places I can buy a 260mm blade.  Maybe two depending on stock levels.  And neither stocks the full range of Leitz/Festool blades and neither has aftermarket models that I'm aware of.

Compared to about 3000+ places I can get a 10" b,are and I can have one that's optimized for firewood, mahogany crown, steel studs, laminate, aluminum, plexiglass, or pressure treated decks  - today. And at half the cost.

You may not need more blade choice or care what you pay for the blade if you're shop based and cut primarially the same material all the time.  It just depends on what's important to you and your useage.

Another consideration for you to weigh is longevity.  The Kapex in 110v has a well documented case of premature failure - which may or may not be be user related. You can spend a couple of hours reading on the subject and draw your own conclusions as to whether there is any risk to you. 

 

[DrD]

[member=57769]TylerC[/member]
[member=43644]Gwerner[/member]
[member=727]antss[/member]

After I sent my Kapex in for service - issues posted elsewhere on FOG - I called Festool Service with some questions.  I've got no idea how many service techs perform Festool service, nor if all of them work on the Kapex.  I do not recall the name of the Tech with whom I spoke, nor would I necessarily give it if I did recall - he gave it, and I did not write it down, saw no reason to so do.  He was very willing to answer all my questions which revolved around why the armature in my saw was replaced and what I should do to minimize future issues.  These I also posted elsewhere in answer to somebody's questions about NA 120v Kapex reliability issues.

I'm sure records are maintained at Festool regarding service phone calls and Tyler should be able to access that information.  What I learned was : 1) it is not necessarily a good plan to power the Kapex using a generator, 2) using long (>25 ft) extension cords, 3) using under-rated extension cords (

 

[Iceclimber]

I have the 10" Bosch glide and a Kapex.

The bosch os my site saw and the Kapex my shop saw. The Kapex is hamds down a nicer saw this regard to design and cut. The dust collection is superior, it has no deflection over the length of a its capacity for a rip cut. The tilt fuction and just every little detail are better.

Now with that said the Bosch is a fine saw. If not for the kapex i would be saying how awesome it is. What it comes down to is not the saw but the craftsman. The bosch with a good blade can do anything the Kapex can. With that said one can get great results on a beater saw all out of alignment with a good blade if they are so motivated.

I think what it comes down to is where your priorities lie. I for one spend at least 50hrs a week using my tools. I like what i do and i like my tools. I also like not having to fight with a tool to get ti to do what i want it to.

I would just buy the Kapex.

 

[kevinculle]

I bought a used Kapex and UG cart with extensions last year to replace my 15 year old Hitachi C10FS.  The Hitachi still worked just fine, but I have been doing some projects where I've been working out of my shop and moving the Hitachi and its stand was a royal pain.  The Kapex is a very fine machine and the bevel adjustment is brilliant, but the bottom line for me is the easy portability of the Kapex/UG setup is the only factor that convinced me to buy one.  So if your saw will sit 100% in the same spot in your shop the Bosch will probably do the job with a little bit less finesse than the Kapex.  If your saw will travel then the Kapex/UG combo is unbeatable!

 

[TylerC]

I was advised by Festool service to not use that function, but rather plug directly into the wall; thus, I start my CT manually, then start the Kapex.

[member=57769]TylerC[/member]
Can you confirm that?  This is the first I've seen a suggestion from Festool to avoid running the saw through the DE's.

This is the first that I've heard of this, and I've certainly seen our own trainers plug the Kapex into a CT Dust Extractor. I'll check with our service department tomorrow. They'll be in a better position to confirm or deny this one.

 

[Bird]

These are all wonderful responses and very helpful. I'm just poking around and I don't know what I'll do, but this conversation was worth all that beer. Now c'mon over and get yours. 

 

[TylerC]

I spoke with the service department this morning, and they sent me a long response. For the sake of simplicity, here's the full response:

You may have found that the integrated receptacle that provides energy for tool-triggered activation on the CT has a warning label on its dust cover.  This warning reads,

“To reduce the risk of fire, only connect a tool rated 3.1 amp. maximum to this receptacle”.

What does this mean in regards to the tools you can use with a Festool CT Dust Extractor?  It means that CT Dust Extractors are designed to work with ALL Festool power tools.  However, we cannot speak for, or verify the compatibility of other non-Festool products used in conjunction with the Festool CT Dust Extractors.  Furthermore, you may find that it is advantageous to use another circuit to energize a power tool separate of that being used by the CT Dust Extractor to ensure that the maximum current* is available for the application.

*The quality of your energy supply (voltage & current) may vary.

Festool CT Dust Extractors are designed to be used with every Festool product in normal working environments.  In short, you will be fine to use the TS 55 with the CT.  We do it all the time without issue.  Remember that although it is capable of pulling 10 amps of current, it won't approach that level of draw in most applications.

 

[antss]

[member=57769]TylerC[/member] - hate to be a stick in the mud but......................

That response doesn't sound at all like it was from a service tech.  From the Risk Management department , maybe.

Second , it didn't simplify anything because it didn't even answer the question posed.  Which was about Kapex.  No where was a TS 55 asked about. 

Perhaps you can ask whomever forwarded that boilerplate to actually read the question asked  - and at least cut and paste the relevant info into the statement before hitting send ?

 

[rizzoa13]

3.1 amp really? I know my of2000 pulls more than that under load and I'd sure guess my kapex does while buried in a bevel cut on hard material. Is 3.1 a true number because that's ridiculous lawyer bull crap to me.

 

[semenza]

[member=57769]TylerC[/member] - hate to be a stick in the mud but......................

That response doesn't sound at all like it was from a service tech.  From the Risk Management department , maybe.

Second , it didn't simplify anything because it didn't even answer the question posed.  Which was about Kapex.  No where was a TS 55 asked about. 

Perhaps you can ask whomever forwarded that boilerplate to actually read the question asked  - and at least cut and paste the relevant info into the statement before hitting send ?

Below is a portion of what Tyler posted.

What does this mean in regards to the tools you can use with a Festool CT Dust Extractor?  It means that CT Dust Extractors are designed to work with ALL Festool power tools.
 

Despite the mention of the TS55 in one portion of the response I can't help but notice the  phrase (my bold) above.

3.1 amp really? I know my of2000 pulls more than that under load and I'd sure guess my kapex does while buried in a bevel cut on hard material. Is 3.1 a true number because that's ridiculous lawyer bull crap to me.

Probably a good chance of that being the case...............

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I don't speak for Festool, but this question has come up many times on the forum and the answer from  both end users AND from Festool has always been that running any Festool tool from the outlet on the CT extractors is not a problem.

Seth

 

[antss]

Sorry Seth, but you're glossing over the orig. question too.

RKA asked a specific question and Tyler said he'd look into it.  What he came back with didn't address the question - which was about the the Kapex and an official response from Festool about plugging it into the wall instead of a vac.

The question wasn't whether one could plug into a vac, or would it work , or about the rating, or a sticker or...........if it'd be a problem.

Furthermore I think we've seen the exact text of that response before. It might even be in your FAQ, which makes me think no one actually thought about answering RKA's question.  They just knee jerked a canned response back and didn't even bother to check to see if they had correctly filled in the blank with actual tool he was asking about.

So, let me re-ask slowly. 

Why      would      festool    service    tell    a    customer  to    plug    their  Kapex  into    the  wall  instead    of    their  CT    vac ?

That was the original question.