thinking about a kapex, your thoughts?

[johnbro]

The CTs (at least the 22 and up) have a 20A plug--all my other Festies have 15A plugs. That tells me the CT is rated for 20A draw, which should leave a lot of extra to power the tool plugged in the front. I plug all my tools into my 22 unless it's busy. I've also plugged a Ridgid shop vac + Kapex into one of those vacuum wall outlet dealies from Woodcraft/Rockler. Works fine.

 

[semenza]

Sorry Seth, but you're glossing over the orig. question too.

RKA asked a specific question and Tyler said he'd look into it.  What he came back with didn't address the question - which was about the the Kapex and an official response from Festool about plugging it into the wall instead of a vac.

The question wasn't whether one could plug into a vac, or would it work , or about the rating, or a sticker or...........if it'd be a problem.

Furthermore I think we've seen the exact text of that response before. It might even be in your FAQ, which makes me think no one actually thought about answering RKA's question.  They just knee jerked a canned response back and didn't even bother to check to see if they had correctly filled in the blank with actual tool he was asking about.

So, let me re-ask slowly. 

Why      would      festool    service    tell    a    customer  to    plug    their  Kapex  into    the  wall  instead    of    their  CT    vac ?

That was the original question.

  Sorry antss, I am not glossing over anything. I am pointing out information that is relative to the discussion of whether or not the Kapex can run off a CT. And providing my own input.

    If you want to get technical about the question......... It was whether or not Tyler could confirm that Festool service told DrD that he should not use the function. Not why Festool service told him that.

    Of course we all know that isn't real the question. The question that would really be on peoples minds when they are considering whether or not to plug the Kapex into the CT or the wall IS actually  whether one could plug into a vac, or would it work , or about the rating, or a sticker or...........if it'd be a problem.   The answer is contained in Festool's reply whether it is boilerplate or not. Plugging a Kapex (which falls under the heading of ALL Festool tools) into a CT and running it off that CT is deemed acceptable by Festool.

    I don't know why Festool service told a customer to plug their Kapex into the wall instead of their CT vac. It doesn't really    matter to me since an official reply from Festool posted here says that Kapex is compatible with the CTs. I have no
reason to have to plug in separately.

  My own use of Kapex has been plugged into a CT Mini for umpteen cuts, for many years, using many power sources. Anecdotal for sure but most likely backed up by the same anecdote from umpteen users. (umpteen is a technical term meaning .... a lot  [wink]).

Seth

   

 

[Stone Message]

Well, I'm new to Festool--got sucked in by that sander offer in the fall. : )

I'm thinking about replacing my 10'' Makita slider with a Kapex for two reasons: the small size and dust collection ability.

I went to a local Woodcraft store where the "non-sales" person told me to buy a Bosch when I was looking at the Kapex and answered zero questions.

So here are some things I don't know. Does this saw use a special size blade?? Will my 10'' blades be useless?

Can you hook up a non-Festool vac and still have the vac power on?

How much space do you need to accomodate that vac hose coming out the back of the saw?

Should I just buy a Bosch and buy you all a beer with what I save?

I joined the FOG a couple of months before I made any Festool purchases and used the experiences of so many experienced joiners, carpenters and cabinet makers, here on the FOG, to guide my choice.

My key requirement was to replace my 20 year old Dewalt radial arm saw which would not stay square from one day to the next. I boiled the available machines down to two - the Bosch Glide which was just about to hit the UK market and the Kapex. There was a huge price difference and so I had to really think hard.

I made what I thought was the right choice based on the reviews, comments and specifications that were available to me at that time. I do not regret that decision and would make the same decision again today. Saying that I do not regret that decision is an understatement - I am so pleased that I bought the Kapex. It is a precision tool and produces exceptional results time after time.

It arrived perfectly set up out of the box but I hit it (by accident) on the end of the angle lock arm with an 8 foot long, 5" square piece of oak which slipped through my hands. There was no damage but I had to take out the fantastic US Supplemental Manual produced by Rick Christopherson to find out how to get things back in spec. I can now fine tune my Kapex to better than Festool spec.

Your questions:

You can hook up any extractor to the Kapex but you need to try and get the at least the same amount of suction (both vacuum and air flow) as a Festool CT. You should expect to use a 36 mm hose for good measure. Some other makes of extractor can do an auto start but make sure that they can handle the power needed by the Kapex. All of Festools CTs can do this.

The hose at the back - no problem. The Kapex can be against the wall and the hose connection joint can be turned to suite.

As far as beer goes - I think that you would be more willing to buy me (and every other contributor to your thread) a beer after buying the Kapex as I know that you will appreciate the quality. Anyway, you can buy the Kapex and have 15 days in which to thoroughly put it through its paces and if you do not like it you can get a full refund.

Blades have been mentioned. The Festool (Leitz) blades are excellent and the one that comes with the machine is top notch. As said before, with other saws you probably have to ditch the supplied blade and buy a decent one. I managed to get a second Festool blade thrown in with the original purchase (as in those days there were no discounts on tools) and I have only just fitted it whilst the old one gets sharpened. I am not a production woodworker but I am cutting hard woods, mainly oak, almost every day.

Peter

 

[Birdhunter]

Peter, great comment. Very cogent and to the point. Mr. Spock would have not have done better. That's a strong complement.

I've been running my Kapex through a Festool dust extractor for years with no power issues. I do use a shortened 36mm hose and get better dust collection than with the full length hose.

 

[kevinculle]

I suspect a key factor in the Kapex/CT weasel-wording relates to a critical use issue not under Festool's control...what capacity circuit is the CT plugged into and what other loads are on that circuit.  The 110V USA CT is equipped with a power cord easily capable of sourcing 20A but the plug is compatible with 15A circuit outlets.  If the CT is the only load on a 20A circuit the Kapex will get all the juice it needs for heavy cutting work.  OTOH if the CT is plugged into a 15A circuit with 5 to 10A of other loads on the circuit the situation regarding the Kapex is very different.  You may think that's no problem since the 15A breaker will trip but if you look up the specs on a 15A breaker you will find that it might take 30 seconds to trip with a 20A load, plenty of  time to start the saw and run a cut with voltage to the saw drooping.  When I work out of the shop with my CT26 and Kapex it gets fed by a 20A circuit or, if unavailable  then separate circuits and I switch the vac manually.

 

[TylerC]

That response doesn't sound at all like it was from a service tech.  From the Risk Management department , maybe.

Nope. I said it's from service. It's from service.

If you think that it sounds like it's from risk management, that's likely because it's part of a standard answer that they give. With questions that they receive regularly, they have written answers for these. Obviously, they don't just read verbatim from these when talking with customers, but having answer guides helps to keep answers consistent and accurate. Because I'm not a service technician, I thought it easier to simply copy and paste the entire answer.

Which leads us to ...

Second , it didn't simplify anything because it didn't even answer the question posed.  Which was about Kapex.  No where was a TS 55 asked about. 

The answer is the same for the Kapex and the TS. That's the one revision that I should have made to the given answer.

So, let me re-ask slowly. 

Why      would      festool    service    tell    a    customer  to    plug    their  Kapex  into    the  wall  instead    of    their  CT    vac ?

Yes, service technicians will sometimes recommend this to individual customers on a case-by-case basis depending on their specific setup, usage and other specifics. Most of the time, plugging directly into the CT is fine and what we recommend.

 

[Kevin D.]

I have the 10" Bosch glide and a Kapex.

The bosch os my site saw and the Kapex my shop saw. The Kapex is hamds down a nicer saw this regard to design and cut. The dust collection is superior, it has no deflection over the length of a its capacity for a rip cut. The tilt fuction and just every little detail are better.

Now with that said the Bosch is a fine saw. If not for the kapex i would be saying how awesome it is. What it comes down to is not the saw but the craftsman. The bosch with a good blade can do anything the Kapex can. With that said one can get great results on a beater saw all out of alignment with a good blade if they are so motivated.

I think what it comes down to is where your priorities lie. I for one spend at least 50hrs a week using my tools. I like what i do and i like my tools. I also like not having to fight with a tool to get ti to do what i want it to.

I would just buy the Kapex.

I have both as well, with my Bosch Axial being the 10 inch model which is marginally lighter than the 12 inch Bosch.  I can reiterate everything said above although I am a DIYer and don't use my saws nearly as frequently, but I do have the same setup where the Kapex sits in my woodshop and the Bosch is my saw for the myriad of jobs I do on my property secured on a gravity rise stand.  The Kapex I've owned for 3 years and the Bosch since early last fall.  They're both great saws imo but my real love is still with my Kapex.

 

[antss]

[member=1619]SRSemenza[/member] , [member=57769]TylerC[/member]

"and if possible, 6) plug the Kapex directly into the wall plug, not going thru the CT. "

Under what circumstances would plugging Kapex into the wall instead of the vac be preferable or be advised by service ?

......meaning what scenarios would lead a tech to advice DrD or anyone else to plug Kapex into the wall instead of their vac ?

I think everyone agrees that you CAN plug any Festool into the CT socket and expect it to work.

I think everyone is in agreement that a Festool Service Tech told DrD that "and if possible, 6) plug the Kapex directly into the wall plug, not going thru the CT. "

Why was this advice given in the first place -or - actually under what circumstances should I consider consider plugging my Kapex into the wall INSTEAD of the CT ?

And since no one has mentioned it , I'm pretty sure the advice about plugging into the wall instead of the CT the tech meant to include a ditty about making sure the saw and vacuum are plugged into receptacles on different circuits if one is going to consider not plugging into the CT socket.

 

[Bird]

As far as beer goes - I think that you would be more willing to buy me (and every other contributor to your thread) a beer after buying the Kapex as I know that you will appreciate the quality.

Now the thing is, the beer was supplied with the savings gained by purchasing a Bosch. : )

But I'm a good Wisconsinite, so we will clink a glass with whomever shows up!

I've now started looking at other tools, like a track saw. Pondering getting rid of the portable table saw and adding a track saw.

Everyone's situation is different, as others have pointed out. While I have worked full time as a carpenter, I am mostly doing personal work in a small shop now. Trying to make the most of space and get a handle on dust collection.

 

[Kevin D.]

[member=1619]SRSemenza[/member] , [member=57769]TylerC[/member]

"and if possible, 6) plug the Kapex directly into the wall plug, not going thru the CT. "

Under what circumstances would plugging Kapex into the wall instead of the vac be preferable or be advised by service ?

......meaning what scenarios would lead a tech to advice DrD or anyone else to plug Kapex into the wall instead of their vac ?

I think everyone agrees that you CAN plug any Festool into the CT socket and expect it to work.

I think everyone is in agreement that a Festool Service Tech told DrD that "and if possible, 6) plug the Kapex directly into the wall plug, not going thru the CT. "

Why was this advice given in the first place -or - actually under what circumstances should I consider consider plugging my Kapex into the wall INSTEAD of the CT ?

And since no one has mentioned it , I'm pretty sure the advice about plugging into the wall instead of the CT the tech meant to include a ditty about making sure the saw and vacuum are plugged into receptacles on different circuits if one is going to consider not plugging into the CT socket.

I'd never been told anything like this before with the separate connection than when I called and asked if it was OK to plug my Delta bandsaw into it.  Basically, I was told that everything Festool makes should be OK to plug into the CT's, anything else, you are taking your chances.  My bandsaw draws less than either the Kapex or the TS75 I own, still, I chose not to do it as it was around 10A and I didn't really need to.  There was no mention of having to plug in on different circuits either, but I don't think it is necessary anyways as it is the tool being connected directly into the CT that is the concern.  If everything is drawing to much, it's your panel breaker that will pop anyways.  At least that's my thinking.

 

[TylerC]

[member=1619]SRSemenza[/member] , [member=57769]TylerC[/member]

"and if possible, 6) plug the Kapex directly into the wall plug, not going thru the CT. "

Under what circumstances would plugging Kapex into the wall instead of the vac be preferable or be advised by service ?

......meaning what scenarios would lead a tech to advice DrD or anyone else to plug Kapex into the wall instead of their vac ?

I think everyone agrees that you CAN plug any Festool into the CT socket and expect it to work.

I think everyone is in agreement that a Festool Service Tech told DrD that "and if possible, 6) plug the Kapex directly into the wall plug, not going thru the CT. "

Why was this advice given in the first place -or - actually under what circumstances should I consider consider plugging my Kapex into the wall INSTEAD of the CT ?

And since no one has mentioned it , I'm pretty sure the advice about plugging into the wall instead of the CT the tech meant to include a ditty about making sure the saw and vacuum are plugged into receptacles on different circuits if one is going to consider not plugging into the CT socket.

I'm not going to invent a hypothetical situation for this. Nearly all of the time, plugging it into the CT is fine. If you're not experiencing a problem -- and very few people will -- you're fine.

However, there have been a few times when a customer has called with a problem -- often when doing larger production work -- and plugging the tool directly into the wall was part of the solution.

 

[Stone Message]

[member=1619]SRSemenza[/member] , [member=57769]TylerC[/member]

"and if possible, 6) plug the Kapex directly into the wall plug, not going thru the CT. "

Under what circumstances would plugging Kapex into the wall instead of the vac be preferable or be advised by service ?

......meaning what scenarios would lead a tech to advice DrD or anyone else to plug Kapex into the wall instead of their vac ?

I think everyone agrees that you CAN plug any Festool into the CT socket and expect it to work.

I think everyone is in agreement that a Festool Service Tech told DrD that "and if possible, 6) plug the Kapex directly into the wall plug, not going thru the CT. "

Why was this advice given in the first place -or - actually under what circumstances should I consider consider plugging my Kapex into the wall INSTEAD of the CT ?

And since no one has mentioned it , I'm pretty sure the advice about plugging into the wall instead of the CT the tech meant to include a ditty about making sure the saw and vacuum are plugged into receptacles on different circuits if one is going to consider not plugging into the CT socket.

It is most likely to do with fault isolation.

If you are having trouble with something which is a system of several parts then you try and break things down and check them individually to isolate the problem. But I am sure that you know all this.

Once the problem has been identified, and in the case mentioned it looked like a power supply issue, the fault can be fixed and everything reconnected as a system again.

So I am sure that Festool techs were just trying to help with the fault ID process. But I am sure that you know this.

Peter

 

[Pike_101]

This is my Kapex story:

I needed to replace an old $50 "Harbor Freight" equivalent miter saw that had more than earned my respect. It built several houses, countless garages, and honestly cut better than it needed for framing. I was still going to keep it around for framing tasks too, but I wanted a dedicated shop saw and after finding out the Kapex could fit tight to the wall, this was one of the primary features I was looking at. Dust collection was also a big plus.

I put the $1200 cash in my pocket, which is what the saw cost then, and made the trip to my dealer. The dealer was doing an open house type event, where they had factory reps on hand and 10% off everything (minus the Festool.) After talking to the store manager and expressing my interest in the Kapex, he suggested I talk to the Bosch rep. I had my mind set on the Kapex, so I wasn't going to be easily persuaded by a salesman, but I knew it wouldn't hurt to hear him out.

I knew the Bosch Glide was a good saw, as a friend owned one. The friend even suggested the Kapex to me when I mentioned I was in the market for a new saw, because even though he loved the Bosch he knew Festool's reputation as being the best. After explaining my reasoning to the rep he made me this offer:

He said for the price of the Kapex, you can have a new shop saw (10") and a new framing saw (12".) In addition they were offering a free stand with the purchase of a saw, and he said if I bought both saws they'd upgrade one of the stands to the gravity-rise stand. I was suddenly caught off-guard. I went and looked at other stuff for a bit to think it over, and the practical side of me won out. I even got the dealer to trade out the other basic stand (which I knew I'd never use) for some new blades when it was all said and done.

While I'd still love to own a Kapex, I am extremely happy with both Boschs and spreading out cost is always good. Accuracy is perfect and dust collection is stellar. The one thing that I could see being a drawback for some is the weight. This was not a factor for me, but they are heavy machines if you need to throw them around.

 

[antss]

[member=57769]TylerC[/member]. - Is it part of the SOP to recommend plugging into the wall instead of the CT when a Kapex is sent in for a motor failure - or would that just be a coincidence ?

[member=11196]Peter Parfitt[/member] - what would you conclude if DrD experienced no other tool motor failure (Festool or otherwise ) from being plugged into his CT but did only when he plugged in his  Kapex.  And the followup of : let's assume the problem went away when his Kapex was no longer powered through the CT ?

And let's suppose for a minute that solves the problem. Meaning Kapex needs more current than is able to be supplied by the CT.  That would kinda defeat the blanket statement of all Festools work with CTs.  It's a real connumdrum.  But I'm sure you already realized this. 

I also suspect you're thankful that your saw doesn't run off of 110v supply. 

 

[Stone Message]

[member=57769]TylerC[/member]. - Is it part of the SOP to recommend plugging into the wall instead of the CT when a Kapex is sent in for a motor failure - or would that just be a coincidence ?

[member=11196]Peter Parfitt[/member] - what would you conclude if DrD experienced no other tool motor failure (Festool or otherwise ) from being plugged into his CT but did only when he plugged in his  Kapex.  And the followup of : let's assume the problem went away when his Kapex was no longer powered through the CT ?

And let's suppose for a minute that solves the problem. Meaning Kapex needs more current than is able to be supplied by the CT.  That would kinda defeat the blanket statement of all Festools work with CTs.  It's a real connumdrum.  But I'm sure you already realized this. 

I also suspect you're thankful that your saw doesn't run off of 110v supply.

I know that you are keen to get to the bottom of motor failure issues but you do need to use careful logic with system faults.

I have no clue about the US wiring standards but I suspect that these vary from place to place and even in the same area there may be different standards applied - 15 amp v 20 amp circuits and so on.

The Kapex draws more current than most other Festools and so if a combination of the CT and tool works for a jigsaw on a 15 amp circuit it might not work with a Kapex. In order to demonstrate that the Kapex works you can plug it directly into a power socket and run it.

That is the simple logic that I was getting at.

Peter

 

[mikeomalley]

Peter, Good explanation, as always. Mike

 

[GarryMartin]

And let's suppose for a minute that solves the problem. Meaning Kapex needs more current than is able to be supplied by the CT.  That would kinda defeat the blanket statement of all Festools work with CTs.

The Kapex has a 13A motor whereas the OF 2200 has a 18A motor. If there was a widespread problem getting enough current through the CT to power a Kapex, then in those same situations, wouldn't you have a mountain of problems and complaints using the OF 2200?

 

[mark60]

And let's suppose for a minute that solves the problem. Meaning Kapex needs more current than is able to be supplied by the CT.  That would kinda defeat the blanket statement of all Festools work with CTs.

The Kapex has a 13A motor whereas the OF 2200 has a 18A motor. If there was a widespread problem getting enough current through the CT to power a Kapex, then in those same situations, wouldn't you have a mountain of problems and complaints using the OF 2200?

I'm the quiet guy in the corner but was actually going to post the same about the TS75. I can see where a Kapex could draw more than a tracksaw with the same size motor or an OF2200 if it's cutting larger timbers. I would think the Kapex could potentially see bigger loads than a router or circular saw.

I just wish they'd figure things out because I've wanted a Kapex for a while now and I haven't bought a glide because I know I'll still want a Kapex. I won't even bet ten bucks on a ball game though so rolling the dice on a Kapex puckers me up pretty good.

 

[glass1]

do people  understand how modern electrical breakers work  A 15 amp breaker does not limit power to 15 amps but shuts off if the draw is above 15 amps. So if a kapex plugged into a ct plugged into a 15 amp breaker draws more than 15 amps the breaker will pop, it will not continually supply 15 amps even though the appliances try to draw more. My dewalt table saws will sometimes trip a 15 amp breaker on start up and if the table saw is plugged into a ct and a 20 amp breaker it will trip the breaker if anything else is hooked up.The max draw of a kapex is 13 amps. The ct's max draw is similar. But the ct's would only max out under load, a clog or full bag. Am I missing something ?  On a side note do the festool ct's need pure sine wave like their tools. Can I run the ct's on the new dealt flex volt battery generator ?

 

[glass1]

so just to follow up the ct does not limit the power to the tool plugged into its outlet because the combination of the ct and another tool can a trip a breaker.