Your Mission if You Choose:

im not sure why you are doing the prototype but it should give you a good impression of the space.
one good thing is that you will still have a shop  there to use to make the new shop.
i usually find that when i rearange things in the shop that i cant buld the thing i rearangesd the shop for . .
i think the key to a small shop is mobility. i would plan on a few syports and mft carts.

have you a pic or 2 of the space to show us the qwirks of the space.
 
Hi Peter,

Interesting problem.

Just for the sake of clarity:  you have 2  10`x12` buildings on your property with front porches, covered rear porches and decks? Neither with electrical supply?

Questions

How far apart are the buildings
What do you intend to do in the shop (what size and complexity of project)
What tools do you want to keep there permanently
Is the stuff that's in them now just junk or stuff to be kept, if stuff to be kept approx how much and its nature.
For the non US guys what is your weather like spring summer autumn winter
Have you any pics that you would be comfortable to share on the forum

John
 
windmill man said:
Hi Peter,

Interesting problem.

Just for the sake of clarity:  you have 2   10`x12` buildings on your property with front porches, covered rear porches and decks? Neither with electrical supply?

Questions

How far apart are the buildings
What do you intend to do in the shop (what size and complexity of project)
What tools do you want to keep there permanently
Is the stuff that's in them now just junk or stuff to be kept, if stuff to be kept approx how much and its nature.
For the non US guys what is your weather like spring summer autumn winter
Have you any pics that you would be comfortable to share on the forum

John

John,

I have 2 - 10 x 12 sheds.  One is just a rectangle (#1), the other (#2) has the covered front porch extending 4' from the front door and covered rear porch extending from the rear wall.  The roof structures are each held up with 4 posts.  The front door is located in a wall that is 12' long, the window is in the wall that is 10' long.  The front door is 3' wide and 6'8" tall.  Fiberglass with triple pane stained glass panel , ball bearing hinges.  The shed exterior is clad with vinyl siding and painted aluminum trim on the rake boards and the fascia boards.  The window is vinyl double paned glass.  The interior of the shed is currently insulated but does not have any plaster board installed.  The building is supported on piers and posts (not directly on the ground) but the floor is not insulated.  Neither of the sheds have electrical power.  The two buildings are about 3 feet apart but are not at right angles to each other and not at the same elevations.

The rectangular shed will remain storage for non woodworking items and after I clean out the desired workspace the rectangular shed will be full.  The one major issue I will have to deal with is the storage of the wood veneer that I have.  For about a year I went nuts on Ebay purchasing large lots of veneer, and I have a shelf twelve feet long by 24" deep that is full of veneer - much of it 12' long.  I realize that I will have to do something with all this.

I will put together some drawings of the space in the next day or so - that should offer some insight.  I already anticipate that I will need to add another door leading onto the rear deck to allow for ease in the moving of sheet goods.

I could see myself having an MFT/3 in the area permanently that would see usage as a worktable, the basis for a table to used for cutting down plywood, and also as an assembly table when needed.  It would be slid around and rotated as needed (I found a cheap cool way to do that already) and then I could see a permanent CT, and a TS.  I could envision movable homemade sysports that end up the same height as the MFT, and I have an idea on how to utilize wasted space behind the MFT when against the wall and also provide a resting spot for it when folded up and not needed.  My portable table saw can store under the MFT without its stand.  Then there will be the Dewalt thickness planer, and a small portable air compressor and hose. And finally, there will have to be a fold up chair so that I can sit, ponder, and think.  The walls will be vital for storage of the few handtools that I own.

Projects would be two sheets of plywood worth.  I want to force myself to start and finish projects.  So one or two smaller cabinets or bookshelves at a time.  Wood boxes.  Jigs.  If in the workflow I need to move something temporarily out of the area I can with the covered area, but with everything inside movable I will be interesting to see how necessary that would be.

Temperature wise the winters get down to about 10 F, the summers 100 F.  I can see the need for on demand heat for winter usage and expect to sweat in the warmer months.  Shop supplies such as glue and finishes will have to either be stored in a heated area or transported from the house.

Sorry for the length of the post, but I really appreciate the questions.

I spoke with my brother today about this, and as someone who knows me, and also knows what the alternatives are in case this works, he was unusually enthusiastic.

I take some measurements and do some drawings,

Peter

 
ccarrolladams said:
Peter, this is a fascinating project. I am very interested in following this discussion closely.

Carroll,

You should be well positioned to offer thoughts and comments as this progresses based on your condominium experiences as well as your movie background.  I look forward to them.

Peter
 
OK Peter, I understand that you want to attempt to organize and use a woodworking shop in a very small area and so I will try to help.  

Before getting into that, I don't think that avoiding a building permit is a good reason for getting stuck with the small building that you did. When planning and building my woodworking shed, I had nothing but good experience with the folks who had to approve the plans and the inspectors that made several visits.  They all gave me good advise (which I mostly followed).   Sure I had to make a few changes but all the changers that I made were for the better.  I always advise people that I am doing work for to obtain building or improvement permits (when appropriate).

Now to your building ...

Off the top of my head, there are two items that I built that might help you.  

(1) Multi-door wall hanging tool cabinets.  Both my daughters have even smaller areas than 10x12 ft in their basements in which they attempt to do woodworking.  I often get stuck working in these claustrophobic places too.  I built each of my daughters a set of these cabinets and they help a lot.  Here are some photos:

[attachthumb=#1]  [attachthumb=#2] [attachthumb=#3]

I found plans for these cabinet in the October 2006 issue of Wood magazine.

(2) A roll around cart and tool support that resides under an MFT.  I use the bottom portion of this to store many tools and the removeable top to swap in a sander, a small bandsaw, a router table, a metalworking vise and anvil, etc.  Here are a few photos:

[attachthumb=#4]  [attachthumb=#5] [attachthumb=#6]

I described the construction of this cart in the thread: http://festoolownersgroup.com/member-projects/a-mobile-shop-cart-and-tool-base-to-fit-under-my-festool-mft/

 

Attachments

  • Wall-hung tool cabinet 3 -One interior door opened.jpg
    Wall-hung tool cabinet 3 -One interior door opened.jpg
    235 KB · Views: 439
Frank. This is an awesome cabinet,talk about utilizing small space to its best to its best, you sure did.

Sal
 
Hi Peter,

When I was very young my Grandfather Adams, who I called "A'Pa", lived with us in a huge loft apartment in West Greenwich Village. My Dad and A'Pa had bought that building and the one adjoining it to the west in 1928. A'Pa had a corner bedroom. My parents had the larger bedroom next to his, while my room was at the other end of the loft. That left a great room with a skylight of over 2.500 square feet. His antique traditional furniture making bench could be shoved against the wall under the skylight between projects. Mind you, A'Pa only wanted to use tools and methods common in 1800, so he had no power tools. He also only work with solid hardwood, no plywood. This worked out because that loft was a 4 storey walk-up, with narrow winding stairs. Getting the lumber up to the loft was easier than moving the finished furniture down those stairs to the street.

My own first workshop was in 1948. I shared a fifth floor walk-up across the street from Washington Square Park. Four of us engineering students shared the entire top floor, with small bedrooms in the corners. leaving me a space 18' x 30' when we were not entertaining. I was both an engineering student and a union stagehand. The other guys entertained even less. Again the trick was moving sheets of plywood up the stairs and re-moving the finished cabinets.

In 1950 I moved to Burbank to finish engineering school while working for a movie studio. Since I was not a member of Local 40 which built scenery, I could not even hold a hammer on the studio lot. My apartment was not far from the studio. To build cabinets I rented a 20' x 25' corner of an industrial building in Burbank. It had a large roll-up door and lots of power. My landlord used the rest of the building so he could sign for lumber and plywood deliveries. There my only fixed machines were a 14" Davis & Wells cabinet saw, a 12" jointer, a 20" thickness planer, a drill press and a 14" D&W bandsaw, plus a bunch of hand electric tools. I made a bunch of custom cabinets in that shop. While I was on active duty in the USMC my landlord did not charge me rent for the smaller space where all my equipment was stored from January 1955 to February 1959.

Back in civilian life, I got married to Jean. At first we lived in a house I owned in Pasadena which had a 2 car garage. Instead of setting it up as a shop, I went partners with my father and father-in-law to buy a building about 5 minutes away already set up as a machine shop. On the same property there was a separate 25' x 50' building. I moved my woodworking equipment there. We had machinists working on three shifts, and during the day there was an office manager to sign for deliveries. Both buildings had large roller doors and we shared a 6,000 pound Yale forklift.

Both my Dad and FIL died in 1966. I inherited their interest in the buildings and machine shop. I moved the machine shop to Van Nuys, CA to take advantage of very inexpensive former WWII era aircraft plant buildings. I bought a 20,000 square foot industrial building in the eastern section of Pasadena which was my cabinet shop for 30 years. The Yale forklift went with the machine shop. I bought a 4,000 pound electric Yale fork lift for the cabinet shop. It already had 480v 3ph power and a big door. I added a dust collection system. Over the years I also added more fixed machines.

But in 1996 my duties at the studio no longer gave me the spare time to run my side-line, but profitable, cabinet business, I sold everything except the land and building to my employees. For the next 10 years if I wanted to build anything I borrowed or rented shop space from friends. Jean had dies in 1989 and I no longer lived in Pasadena. I had bought a 4,000 square foot condo in 1993 just south of Hollywood. It is one storey up from street level, with a small elevator on the other end of the building and a tall flight of stairs near my condo.

There my first work space was originally a bedroom, 16 x 21 feet, but I lined opposing walls with 3' deep industrial shelves, leaving me a space 10' x 18'. Unfortunately there is no good entry to that room, so the largest sheet of plywood which will fit is 4' x 7'

Once I embraced Festool and really became hooked on the green beverage in January 2006, I expanded my condo activities to include the spare living room. It has one column 12' from one wall x 26' with an adjoining section 8' x 11' The door is only 40" wide, but a straight shot for 4 x 8' sheets. I had a local welder build me a 4 x 8 sheet stock cart with 12" casters. Even loaded with 20 sheets of 19mm plywood, I can move it by myself. I use wedges to lift the top sheet, slide a sheet of 1/4" Luan under that and the long Festool screw clamps to start the sheet breakdown until the parts are small enough to be moved into the other room which has a 4' x 80" assembly/cutting table, along with a second CT22, a drill press, a small Inca table saw and a miter saw (since replaced by a Kapex).

Here every lumber yard has a bunch of willing and talented people outside the fence looking for work. When I would buy a half lift of plywood, the dealer's truck would take it to by condo. I would lead the way in my car with a day-hire to do the carrying up the stairs.

After I retired in 2007 my cabinet business expanded. I rented space from other shops, sometimes from 3 at once, requiring me to buy more CT22s and TS55s. By late 2009 I had selected a group of 6 excellent cabinet makers, all frustrated from working in shops so small work would have to stop to move things around for the next task. We met a couple of times a week deciding on the big machines we wanted, as well as the work flow. Once we agreed on a floor plan, I gave the specifications to a trusted industrial real estate broker. We all wanted a lot running from one street to another, so trucks did not need to turn around on our land. Our plan required a building at least 66' wide x 270' long, all clear span. We ended office/show room space the width of the building about 30' deep. By January 2010 such a building was located and a deal set. It had been built in 1950 as a warehouse, so while it was the right size, even with a 20' wide door, it did not have industrial 480v 3ph power. And, the restrooms did not meet the ADA or current plumbing code.

Fortunately my industrial plumbing contractor is the brother of my local Festool dealer and one of their brothers-in-law is my industrial electrical contractor. When escrow closed we had all the necessary permits. The new transformers and pole were on order. Demol and build-out of the remodel only took 90 days, by which time all the internal wiring was done. It took almost that long for our electrical switch gear to be built, so we could start installing the big machines. Oh, yes, while construction was on-going, Toyota loaned me a 6,000 propane fork lift. As soon as we had the 480 v 3ph power to run the charger, Toyota delivered our 4,000 pound 3-wheel electric fork lift.

Early this year the 16,000 square foot building across the common parking lot was offered for sale. I bought that as storage space for plywood and lumber. Escrow has closed and our permit to install a 20' wide door was recently approved. That door assembly is under construction. It should be very convenient.

However, this much space is beyond necessary for custom shops with fewer workers. All of us have made money in space smaller than a 2 car garage. Having enough space we do not collide reduces frustration.
 
Sal LiVecchi said:
Frank. This is an awesome cabinet,talk about utilizing small space to its best to its best, you sure did.

Sal

Yes the design of these cabinets is quite good.  I wish that I could claim that the design was mine, but I can't.  The plans for this were very good and I followed them much more closely than I do most plans.  I usually improvise and "improve" upon plans, but found no need to do so with these.
 
Peter, A great subject.  I will follow the discussion closely.
I have a space of 9x20 with serious wall space limitations.  6'8" floor to ceiling joists.  Heating ducts and lumber racks take up un of the walls. The opposite wall has a lumber rack that i will eventually remove so i can install cabinets and shelving. I have a couple of MFT's, a /3 and 680 in tandem.  I have most of my other tools and a wood workbench on wheels.  Even at that, I am so crowded I can not move one thing without moveing almost everything else.

I have looked closely at Ron Paulk's ideas for setting up in small spaces.

The one major problem I have is the frustration of trying to build any large projects within such tight space. 

I did build a 12x24 barn about 20 some years ago to set up shop.  The only problem with that is that it filled up with my day job equipment and materials to be useless for woodworking.  i do have a little space out there to store lumber but a loooonnnnngggg walk carrying a 2x10x10 or 12 foot piece of oak from barn to house. Maybe I should move my Landscaping equipment, seed and fertilizer and other items to my cellar and move my shop to the barn.  Of course, if i did that, i would have to find another lot for me and my barn.  Or a 4x6 plot with a whole lot of other small plots gathered all around my plot.  [unsure]

you have an interesting problem and have invited some interesting comments.
Tinker
 
Thanks Frank!

By the way, for those who are considering participation in the current contest, storage ideas might be a quick and easy project to show Festools in action.

Peter
 
Hi Peter,

Thanks for the info, looking forward to seeing the plans.

I started my career working out of a 7`x 13`, out building, it was very hard work [smile].

How big is the rear covered porch?

Could the front covered porch be returned along the 10`side so that it joined up with the rear porch.
My first reaction is that you should not put a door in the rear wall to the back porch as it will break a good working wall, i would perhaps consider going out of the side wall hence the above question.

John
 
Peter,

I tell ya first Im one cheap SOB and I try to get the most bang for my buck. If I was in your situation and wanted a shop on site at your home I would do this.

1) Figure out how much you spend in say a 3 year period for rent, insurance, gas, vehicle maint, time etc.

2) How much it would cost you to build a decent shop say a 20'X 30'.

Do the math.

Then if the cost are about the same or close, build the shop and pay yourself rent. Then your shop would also be a additional tax write off.

If you do the math, Im sure it will about even out, shop vs rent.

Before I would construct your pro to type, I would take tape and mark out a size of shop that you would like, include expansion, finish area etc.

Then you can figure out the cost and begin from there.
 
The OP, Peter Halle, has made it clear he built his shed as he did because that was the largest he could in his community without a building permit.

Clearly he understands that it would be foolish to build a non-conforming use structure. In his community it might be possible to operate a business in a residential zone, and he might well be able to build an efficient shop on his home property. In which case all of us will learn about the frustrations of the zoning variation and plans-checking processes.

Before any of us assume renting space from ourselves to create a home business tax deduction needs advice from a tax law expert who actually has done that without being audited. One factor the IRS considers is if the home business is allowed by the local authorities and if all business license fees have been paid.

Sometimes, what seems like such a good and convenient idea turns into a regulatory nightmare. Please think of "Mr. Blanding Builds His Dream House" before constructing a home shop.
 
Thanks for all the great comments!  

Sure would I love to consider a bigger shop, but unless I win the lottery or find out that a wealthy person remembered me in his / her will it isn't going to happen.  But as Carroll noted if I were to be using that shop to generate income then I would run up against zoning issues and have to apply for variances (which most often here have a limited duration), etc.  Ironically , if my lot was located behind mine, a mere 150 feet, I would not have any issues because that single family home lot is zoned Agricultural which doesn't have the limitations.  

I personally would never in today's time build a building that didn't have a duel purpose.  I would build a large garage and use that as a shop versus a large building that couldn't also house vehicles.  If I added onto my house with the intent of having a workspace it would have to have the ability to be alternately used down the road as living space of some sort if possibly allowed by local codes.  Part of the reason for the smaller existing building and having two, was that a future family with kids might want one for storage of gardening equipment and tools, and maybe the kids could have a playhouse.  The covered porches were added because I didn't like the appearance of two identical buildings side by side.  The deck was added so that if needed additional space was available at the same elevation as the floor inside and also it might be a good place for a family to spend time close to their kids.

I am not going to use the shop to generate income.  I want to finally get to the point where I can separate my profession from my hobby although they are closely related.  I am fascinated by the demonstrated abilities of others to work to the scale of their available spaces.  Some of our international members are great examples.  Because of the fact that all my tools are portable, and I am used to being portable, if a project that I do for my own home is too large for the space, then I will have to adapt.  That space is right outside the door during good weather.  In bad weather I guess that I will have to sit and spend more time on the FOG!  But, if I want to build decorative boxes, or turn pens again using a router table, or try out something I've seen here, all I will need to do is walk about 100 feet, unlock a door, turn on the lights, and play.  Yes, I might have to grab a TS-55 out of the truck and bring it back to the shop, but hey, the box does have a handle.

If I find that I am enjoying the space enough to justify a larger area, then the next step will be to build an attachment to the house as mentioned above.  I just want to make sure that I use the space to its maximum before taking another step.

Peter

 
Peter, since you are going to use this building as a hobby space it seems to me that you might be able to get away (at least for a while) without running electricity to it.  

I do have experience with such a setup.  At Pellow's Camp, I built a 16' x 16' building that is used as a woodworking shed, as a bunkhouse, and for storeage.  There is about the same amount of space as you have to work inside and as often as possible I bring tools and benches outside to work in front of the building.

You ask: What has this got to do with electricity?  I don't have mains power on the island and about the only time I need it is when running power tools.  Then I use a very efficient, reliable, and relatively quiet, and not very expensive Honda generator.  I suggest that you consider doing the same.
 
Systainers and portability are going to be your friend to maximize the floor / work space in the 10' x 12'. I am thinking that you will not really need much tool storage space since your truck will take care of most of that.

I have found that is is very helpful to plan in "empty" space that has a specific task. In my case one such space is a nearly empty Sys- III in my site kit. I know that I will have small add ins  such as can of finish, special hardware etc. that need to go to every job. This Sys is purposely kept empty to make it easy to  take these items. 

In your case (Peter) a dedicated  spot to put the tool cases that get brought in or pulled off a shelf. Don't put anything else in that spot.  Now that may seem less efficient use of space , but it will almost always get used.  And It avoids having tools and cases  ...on the bench, on the floor ,  keeping the door from opening all the way, move it to use the bench, move it again to use the saw...... etc, etc.

We all know what happens when a bunch of tools and cases get pulled out and placed on whatever surface happens to be available.

Seth
 
Seth, that is very good advise.  Even though I have a lot more room than Peter will have, I do exactly what you are suggesting that Peter should do.
 
Thanks Frank and Seth!

I am a piler [scared], so this may help me with that.  I do have a small generator but alas it is not a super quiet one.  It definitely could be used initially.

Peter
 
I love ccarrolladams notes, and always look for the lessons buried within. With all due respect to ccarrolladams, here's what I learned from this one:

ccarrolladams said:
My own first workshop was in 1948. I shared a fifth floor walk-up across the street from Washington Square Park. Four of us engineering students shared the entire top floor, with small bedrooms in the corners. leaving me a space 18' x 30' when we were not entertaining. I was both an engineering student and a union stagehand. The other guys entertained even less. Again the trick was moving sheets of plywood up the stairs and re-moving the finished cabinets.

Just because you are busy studying you can always make time for your passions. Putting yourself through school with a job and building cabinets on the side is not for the feint of heart.
It doesn't hurt to have no fear and to work your a** off.

ccarrolladams said:
In 1950 I moved to Burbank to finish engineering school while working for a movie studio. Since I was not a member of Local 40 which built scenery, I could not even hold a hammer on the studio lot. My apartment was not far from the studio. To build cabinets I rented a 20' x 25' corner of an industrial building in Burbank. It had a large roll-up door and lots of power. My landlord used the rest of the building so he could sign for lumber and plywood deliveries. There my only fixed machines were a 14" Davis & Wells cabinet saw, a 12" jointer, a 20" thickness planer, a drill press and a 14" D&W bandsaw, plus a bunch of hand electric tools. I made a bunch of custom cabinets in that shop. While I was on active duty in the USMC my landlord did not charge me rent for the smaller space where all my equipment was stored from January 1955 to February 1959.

A good relationship with your landlord is very valuable.

ccarrolladams said:
Back in civilian life, I got married to Jean. At first we lived in a house I owned in Pasadena which had a 2 car garage. Instead of setting it up as a shop, I went partners with my father and father-in-law to buy a building about 5 minutes away already set up as a machine shop. On the same property there was a separate 25' x 50' building. I moved my woodworking equipment there. We had machinists working on three shifts, and during the day there was an office manager to sign for deliveries. Both buildings had large roller doors and we shared a 6,000 pound Yale forklift.

Work with family instead of fighting with them. While it takes a lot of negotiation and compromise, working with family members at least in the beginning of a venture has it's benefits. Obviously it helps if family members are entrepreneurial.

ccarrolladams said:
Both my Dad and FIL died in 1966. I inherited their interest in the buildings and machine shop. I moved the machine shop to Van Nuys, CA to take advantage of very inexpensive former WWII era aircraft plant buildings. I bought a 20,000 square foot industrial building in the eastern section of Pasadena which was my cabinet shop for 30 years. The Yale forklift went with the machine shop. I bought a 4,000 pound electric Yale fork lift for the cabinet shop. It already had 480v 3ph power and a big door. I added a dust collection system. Over the years I also added more fixed machines.

Inheritance is good, reinvesting and leveraging opportunities to grow an existing business is smart. Fork lifts are fun.

ccarrolladams said:
But in 1996 my duties at the studio no longer gave me the spare time to run my side-line, but profitable, cabinet business, I sold everything except the land and building to my employees. For the next 10 years if I wanted to build anything I borrowed or rented shop space from friends.

Being good at your job means you understand what you are good at. Selling your business when you can't manage it because of other responsibilities is wise.

ccarrolladams said:
Jean had dies in 1989 and I no longer lived in Pasadena.

I am sorry to hear about your loss. Loosing a life long partner has got to be extremely difficult.

ccarrolladams said:
I had bought a 4,000 square foot condo in 1993 just south of Hollywood. It is one storey up from street level, with a small elevator on the other end of the building and a tall flight of stairs near my condo.

There my first work space was originally a bedroom, 16 x 21 feet, but I lined opposing walls with 3' deep industrial shelves, leaving me a space 10' x 18'. Unfortunately there is no good entry to that room, so the largest sheet of plywood which will fit is 4' x 7'

Don't be afraid to start from the bottom - again.

ccarrolladams said:
Once I embraced Festool and really became hooked on the green beverage in January 2006, I expanded my condo activities to include the spare living room. It has one column 12' from one wall x 26' with an adjoining section 8' x 11' The door is only 40" wide, but a straight shot for 4 x 8' sheets. I had a local welder build me a 4 x 8 sheet stock cart with 12" casters. Even loaded with 20 sheets of 19mm plywood, I can move it by myself. I use wedges to lift the top sheet, slide a sheet of 1/4" Luan under that and the long Festool screw clamps to start the sheet breakdown until the parts are small enough to be moved into the other room which has a 4' x 80" assembly/cutting table, along with a second CT22, a drill press, a small Inca table saw and a miter saw (since replaced by a Kapex).

Always learn something new. Don't be afraid to do it differently and learn new techniques and methodology. Just 'cause you had a big shop with a lot of heavy metal and a bunch of employees last time doesn't mean that's the only way to do it.

ccarrolladams said:
Here every lumber yard has a bunch of willing and talented people outside the fence looking for work. When I would buy a half lift of plywood, the dealer's truck would take it to by condo. I would lead the way in my car with a day-hire to do the carrying up the stairs.

Make friends, and be fair. Treat everyone with respect, tell them what you are doing and you never know what can happen.

ccarrolladams said:
After I retired in 2007 my cabinet business expanded. I rented space from other shops, sometimes from 3 at once, requiring me to buy more CT22s and TS55s. By late 2009 I had selected a group of 6 excellent cabinet makers, all frustrated from working in shops so small work would have to stop to move things around for the next task. We met a couple of times a week deciding on the big machines we wanted, as well as the work flow. Once we agreed on a floor plan, I gave the specifications to a trusted industrial real estate broker. We all wanted a lot running from one street to another, so trucks did not need to turn around on our land. Our plan required a building at least 66' wide x 270' long, all clear span. We ended office/show room space the width of the building about 30' deep. By January 2010 such a building was located and a deal set. It had been built in 1950 as a warehouse, so while it was the right size, even with a 20' wide door, it did not have industrial 480v 3ph power. And, the restrooms did not meet the ADA or current plumbing code.

If you are going to retire, fill your time with golf, poker, traveling and dating, otherwise you will have more work than you ever wanted. Make new friends and keep them close. Work with the people you trust.

ccarrolladams said:
Fortunately my industrial plumbing contractor is the brother of my local Festool dealer and one of their brothers-in-law is my industrial electrical contractor. When escrow closed we had all the necessary permits. The new transformers and pole were on order. Demol and build-out of the remodel only took 90 days, by which time all the internal wiring was done. It took almost that long for our electrical switch gear to be built, so we could start installing the big machines. Oh, yes, while construction was on-going, Toyota loaned me a 6,000 propane fork lift. As soon as we had the 480 v 3ph power to run the charger, Toyota delivered our 4,000 pound 3-wheel electric fork lift.

Experience is better than hope. Three phase power is the cats . Fork lifts are fun, big ones are even more fun.

ccarrolladams said:
Early this year the 16,000 square foot building across the common parking lot was offered for sale. I bought that as storage space for plywood and lumber. Escrow has closed and our permit to install a 20' wide door was recently approved. That door assembly is under construction. It should be very convenient.

However, this much space is beyond necessary for custom shops with fewer workers. All of us have made money in space smaller than a 2 car garage. Having enough space we do not collide reduces frustration.

Having a lot of space is nice but that doesn't mean you can't make money with less.
 
Back
Top