Festool CXS Brushless

[Rick Herrick]

I still prefer my Sig P226 to the P320.

Copy that.  But once I latched on to the P229, the P226s aren't getting as much love.  I recently tested both my P226 and P229 using 357Sig.  Couldn't believe the P229 was actually nicer to shoot in this caliber.  Sorry about getting off topic but I love my Sigs.

 

[xedos]

Just a head up regarding grip: If you didn’t like the Bosch 12V you wouldn’t like Milwaukee 12V either. It’s the same battery-in-grip design

Not exactly  [blink]

While the design is similar , the implementation is different. Mikwaukee's designs have a smaller circumference on the handles/ grips than the Bosch ones. Some guys find them more comfortable. 

Milwaukee has a new install driver that's a knockoff of CXS, with a lot more chucks that you may or may not find useful.  Worth a look/feel if you're shopping.  Their 4 & 6 Ah batteries help with the balance on a lot of tools and the capacity can't be matched in Festools 12v lineup.  The number of tools the platform supports is over a hundred, but you probably won't have a need for a grease gun or PEX expander.  But things like a stapler, heat gun, or inspection camera might appeal to more people.

That said , it's still hard to deny the CXS feel, ergonomics being superior. It's just that it's getting long in the tooth, and the battery basically doesn't fit anything else.  So, if you don't care about compatibility, it's still a winner. 

 

[FestitaMakool]

Just a head up regarding grip: If you didn’t like the Bosch 12V you wouldn’t like Milwaukee 12V either. It’s the same battery-in-grip design

Not exactly  [blink]

While the design is similar , the implementation is different. Mikwaukee's designs have a smaller circumference on the handles/ grips than the Bosch ones. Some guys find them more comfortable. 

Milwaukee has a new install driver that's a knockoff of CXS, with a lot more chucks that you may or may not find useful.  Worth a look/feel if you're shopping.  Their 4 & 6 Ah batteries help with the balance on a lot of tools and the capacity can't be matched in Festools 12v lineup.  The number of tools the platform supports is over a hundred, but you probably won't have a need for a grease gun or PEX expander.  But things like a stapler, heat gun, or inspection camera might appeal to more people.

That said , it's still hard to deny the CXS feel, ergonomics being superior. It's just that it's getting long in the tooth, and the battery basically doesn't fit anything else.  So, if you don't care about compatibility, it's still a winner.

Well, it’s not far off. But it’s certainly up to each to to decide.
I have the Milwaukee polisher, had the CXS knock off, but returned it. Festool goes around most others out there in terms of electronics and handling. Always go for what feels best for you, and always consider “hidden” qualities -  not everything is about what you see or torque..

 

[yetihunter]

The Milwaukee cxs/t18/c18 hybrid knockoff has some head-scratching, deal-breaking qualities to it.  A brushless CXS will arrive when a Chinese factory decides to produce an off the shelf brushless motor the same size/dimensions as the all in one brushed motor inside of the current CXS.  Or when Festool decides to bother making their own motors.

 

[Cypren]

The Milwaukee cxs/t18/c18 hybrid knockoff has some head-scratching, deal-breaking qualities to it.

Can you elaborate on this? I'm just curious to know what you considered deal-breaking about it, specifically. The main thing I've noticed is that -- just like when you compare Milwaukee and Festool's full-sized drills -- it lacks the level of fine control in the trigger and the light touch of the electronic clutch in the CXS. I use my CXS all the time for delicate screwdriving in small electronic circuit boards and plastic parts where over-torquing would destroy the work piece. I would never try that with any of my Milwaukee drills.

 

[yetihunter]

Coincidentally, I’ve also used the CXS, PDC and T18 on circuit boards and other delicate assemblies/bench action.  Festool really shines there.  They make the only drills I trust if that makes sense.

Milwaukee’s installation driver has no forward reverse switch.  Instead, it’s a membrane button selector on top of the tool.  It’s crazy stupid.  The chucks don’t go on and off easily like Bosch/Festool, either.

I couldn’t get pictures to load but my current “brushless txs” is an imported Makita DDF083Z it is so good except for two things:

1.) Trigger either goes off like a rocket or it goes off like a rocket ship.  Feathering always.
2.) The clutch may as well not be there.

You guys are making me want my CXS back, stop it.  It’s wimpy.

 

[xedos]

I'm going to buy a CXS, not because I'm a fanboy, but a three year warranty on the drill and batteries

Not sure what the particulars are in the UK, but in the "Colonies" Bosch tools have a three year warranty.  The batteries are two years, and you have to register them  : 

 

[notenoughcash]

If you didn’t like the Bosch 12V you wouldn’t like Milwaukee 12V either.

not to open a can of worms, but having used both, the m12 is much nicer to hold, infact, my m12cd is just about the only drill i use.  the difference is m12 tapers at the top and bosch stays fat all the way up

 

[xedos]

This is very user specific - see above.    I hate the 12v milwaukee handles.

 

[Doug S]

The cxs is not as powerful as others and not brushless but it's my favourite driver by far, in my opinion no other driver feels as good in the hand.

 

[escapegoat]

The cxs is not as powerful as others and not brushless but it's my favourite driver by far, in my opinion no other driver feels as good in the hand.

I've found that the CXS's maximum torque coincides with the point at which the twisting force on my wrist starts to become uncomfortable. In my opinion, adding more torque via a brushless motor won't make the tool better, it will just make it harder to control and push it into an operating zone that's better served by an impact driver, or a drill with a grip further below the axis of rotation.

 

[hoe]

Since everyone seems to love those little drills i just ordered one from Ultimate Tools in Burnaby, BC and it is currently on a Purolator truck heading my way.

 

[FestitaMakool]

A brushless CXS would yield higher top speed in 2. gear, but could be less torque in 1. gear and less linear control. It would last much longer on even existing batteries (although I believe it do last pretty long as pr. today)
A brushless motor would also most likely demand a thicker upper body to accommodate the magnets and controllers. But it would be shorter.

A give and take. I’d guess that’s why it hasn’t been redesigned, it may alter the features loved by so many.

 

[johnyhuh]

Since everyone seems to love those little drills i just ordered one from Ultimate Tools in Burnaby, BC and it is currently on a Purolator truck heading my way.

Hope you had a chance to use it for sometime. How do you like it?

I was on the fence for the longest time; now that I have it, it’s the go-to drill for most of the time.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

I had the Bosch since the time when they used to call them 10.8v and got involved with the voltage wars/advertising/marketing gimmick. The original (pocket driver) was hex collet only and single speed. 400rpm IIRC? It was basically a pistol-grip version of the stick-style screwdriver. Snice it was so much shorter and a more familiar form-factor, I used one when I worked in the assembly/up-fit area of the cabinet shop. It was great for the little PH2 screws on hardware. Then they came out with one that had an actual drill chuck. I saw one at a demo during an open house at a local tool store, bought it right then. That version was updated sometime later with better ergonomics and a 2 speed gearbox. So I bought one of them and sold off the other one to one of the installers. After that they came out with a right-angle drill, bought that too. I got along with all of that for several years. After moving out of the assembly/up-fit area, I didn't have the need for as many different drills/drivers at the same time, so they just kind of sat. I sold all of the Bosch stuff and went to the CSX. That one tool could do all of the things the others did, take less space and actually get used more, because it was only one. I had no idea how much I would like the ergonomics of it. It is as much of an extension of your hand as anything could be. I don't drive big screws with it, but it could. The Makita brushless impact driver does that. But the CSX is my go-to for most things and I wouldn't change a thing on it.

 

[bidn]

I bought the Milwaukee Fuel 12v Brushless Screwdriver.  It is a real tool, not a toy and I'm very happy with it.  It's weight isn't noticeable hanging from my belt, yet it has a lot of power for it's size, and a tight chuck.  I would have gotten the CSX if the battery was compatible with my Syslite, but I like my choice.  The CSX has angle attachments, but they have more plastic than the larger Festool drills - and for the amount that I need 90 degree technology I have a manual attachment, plus the M12 has a shorter length.  Also, I wanted to use standard bits and not get locked into Centrotec, but each their own.

I agree, the Milwaukee M12 FDDXKIT-0X is my favorite drill. The only negative is that with the 2.0 Ah battery it doesn't stand an a table in a very stable manner. I just avoid the 2.0 Ah battery, I use instead the powerful 6.0 Ah battery = very stable.

 

[vkumar]

is the M12 FDDXKIT-0X the same as 2505-20 installation driver sold in the US?

 

[NiteWalkerGR]

is the M12 FDDXKIT-0X the same as 2505-20 installation driver sold in the US?

Yes.

 

[Bob D.]

I bought the Milwaukee Fuel 12v Brushless Screwdriver.  It is a real tool, not a toy and I'm very happy with it.  It's weight isn't noticeable hanging from my belt, yet it has a lot of power for it's size, and a tight chuck.  I would have gotten the CSX if the battery was compatible with my Syslite, but I like my choice.  The CSX has angle attachments, but they have more plastic than the larger Festool drills - and for the amount that I need 90 degree technology I have a manual attachment, plus the M12 has a shorter length.  Also, I wanted to use standard bits and not get locked into Centrotec, but each their own.

I agree, the Milwaukee M12 FDDXKIT-0X is my favorite drill. The only negative is that with the 2.0 Ah battery it doesn't stand an a table in a very stable manner. I just avoid the 2.0 Ah battery, I use instead the powerful 6.0 Ah battery = very stable.

For me if I could change only one thing on the M12 Installer it would be to put a 'normal' Fwd/Rev switch on it in the location where everyone expects it to be. Having to use a second hand to reach on top of the tool body and press that button is a PITA. You can not easily move from forward to reverse with the flick of one finger or thumb. Someone was asleep at the wheel when they signed off on that design fiasco.

The rest of it is pretty good I think.

 

[Hawkeye0001]

Whoop-whoop! Ten years down the line and lo and behold: it's finally coming this year.
The downside: Shane's comment seems to still hold true, it looks more likeb they revamped the C18/T18 rather than design an actual successor to the 12V CXS/TXS line. Though they certainly seem smaller than the current 18V models, they are considerably bigger than their current 12V grandparents...

[attachimg=1]

Does anyone know if Festool plans to make a brushless CXS? I scoured the forums and I found a quote from Shane Holland stating that:

It would have no longer been a compact drill if it had a brushless motor. It would have been a C12/15, which we will have later this year.

If brushless is what you want, we have a broad range of drills with brushless motors with more coming soon.  [wink]

If you want compact, technology has not progress to the point of being able to (at least at a reasonable price point) fit a brushless motor in a compact drill form factor.

However, Bosch is coming out with a 12V compact brushless drill/driver with the same weight as the CXS (.9kg or 1.98lbs). So since the technology is here now (2 years later), does this mean Festool will release an improved CXS?
http://toolguyd.com/bosch-12v-brushless-drill-screwdriver/

- Randy