New bandsaw- would you accept this?

[Euclid]

Yes, I'm sure we're ostensibly 'on the same page' here, wow - I was writing my post before I'd caught up with yours (#36); in light of that I can see I haven't added a great deal to the discussion!

 

[SittingElf]

My thoughts are that these flaws are most likely to have occurred after leaving Laguna.

I have a few Laguna products, including two bandsaws....one 14" and a 19" Italian. I also have their Revo Mini-Lathe.

Delivery of those products to my shop was flawless in each case, and the packaging of the saws was Bob Marino class! If anything, they were overpacked.  Upon initial inspection, I could not find a flaw on any of the products, and certainly no damage of any kind.

I suspect that the freight guys were probably not as careful with your saw as others might normally be, and I would think that in the long run, the final fiduciary responsibility is likely to end up with the delivery company, though your dealer should be the instigator of filing a claim with them, and providing you with proper relief in the interim.

All that being said, Laguna has come a long way from where they were a few years ago regarding Customer Service. I'd call Laguna directly and get the CS Manager involved. He's a very proactive guy and I've had great dealings with him.

Cheers,

Frank

 

[Greg M]

Who is responsible for shipping damage?  Most people think they the vendor is responsible until the item is actually delivered, but that is not always the case. I found out the hard way when I purchased an expensive MiniMax combination machine that ownership transferred to me once the machine left their facility - but fortunately they worked with me to get several items that had been damaged in shipping replaced

Ownership is one thing but responsibility is another.  Just because a vendor states that they're not responsible doesn't mean anything.  Pay with a CC and all you have to do is dispute the charge because you received the item in a condition other than advertised. 

As for disputing the charge, if this next email isn't satisfactory then open a dispute right away.  They've already shown that they're trying to get off with as little as they can.  Supply the parts and a blade at their cost?  That's far cheaper for them then to replace it or send someone out to repair it onsite.  They're looking out for themselves not you.  Start the procedure to take your money back and they'll most likely get more cooperative.

At this point, after the lame first offer, I'd be on the verge of accepting nothing less than a new saw in perfect condition.  Did you buy a used or refurb?  No, then why settle for less unless they offer to supply the parts YOU want AND take 30% off which would be the equivalent of buying a refurbished saw because that's what you're getting if you keep this saw.  They'll be stupid not to accept that because they're not going to get any more then that if they take it back but they'll have to pay for shipping.

As for it happening in shipping?  I believe the OP stated that the damaged parts came in an undamaged box.  Not shipper's responsibility.  The manufacturer sent this item out KNOWING it was damaged.

About "putting" the vendor in the middle?  The vendor chooses to be in the middle!  They're in the business of being in the middle!!!  If they take your money for simply being the middleman then they also take the responsibility to ensure that you get what you paid for.  The vendor does have responsibility to make sure you are taken care of or they don't deserve to get paid.

 

[roblg3]

Greg, that is compelling.  You are correct.  The guy that took your money is really the guy you need to talk to.  Laguna took "his" money so he deals with them.  he has a relationship with them and you with him he will sell more saws from them, you probably will not.  You could buy a different Laguna saw, but most likely not another of the one you have.  The dealer will buy many more of the same saw, unless Laguna screws him on this deal.  You should hope the dealer doesn't screw YOU on this deal.

 

[shaneymack]

My thoughts are that these flaws are most likely to have occurred after leaving Laguna.

I have a few Laguna products, including two bandsaws....one 14" and a 19" Italian. I also have their Revo Mini-Lathe.

Delivery of those products to my shop was flawless in each case, and the packaging of the saws was Bob Marino class! If anything, they were overpacked.  Upon initial inspection, I could not find a flaw on any of the products, and certainly no damage of any kind.

I suspect that the freight guys were probably not as careful with your saw as others might normally be, and I would think that in the long run, the final fiduciary responsibility is likely to end up with the delivery company, though your dealer should be the instigator of filing a claim with them, and providing you with proper relief in the interim.

All that being said, Laguna has come a long way from where they were a few years ago regarding Customer Service. I'd call Laguna directly and get the CS Manager involved. He's a very proactive guy and I've had great dealings with him.

Cheers,

Frank

I disagree that the damages were done in transport. The upper and lower wheel are very scratched up amd they are inside the unit. There is also some blobs of touch up on the wheels. Doubt the transport company did that.

The cardboard wrap that the table was in was pristine. When i took the table out i saw it was scratched and dinged.

In my opinion, this is poor quality control and done at the factory.

As for disputing the cc charges that was never really an option for me. I will wait to see if the dealer or the laguna rep call me. I have yet to hear from the dealer. I sent my salesman all the pictures yesterday morning. 

 

[Greg M]

Another option up your sleeve if they don't make this right is to point both of them to this thread.  One thing I learned in the service is that just 1 "oh crap" will erase a whole lot of "at-a-boys". 

 

[shaneymack]

Another option up your sleeve if they don't make this right is to point both of them to this thread.  One thing I learned in the service is that just 1 "oh crap" will erase a whole lot of "at-a-boys".

If this is headed in a direction that i am not comfortable with, i will for sure send hin the link.

 

[wow]

Another option up your sleeve if they don't make this right is to point both of them to this thread.  One thing I learned in the service is that just 1 "oh crap" will erase a whole lot of "at-a-boys".

If this is headed in a direction that i am not comfortable with, i will for sure send hin the link.

I agree that this is worth mentioning to them. They need to know that a LOT of people are watching this, and since several of us are existing Laguna customers it's likely that several more are POTENTIAL Laguna customers.

They need to step up to the plate and take care of you. We are all watching to see how this is handled, and you might as well let them know that.

 

[AlexThePalex]

Wow, they want to send you a can of paint? That's absolutely the lamest thing I've ever heard.

And some spare parts? It's their responsability to get the product in "as new" condition to you. When you pay for new, you should accept nothing less but a completely new saw in pristine condition.

 

[rljatl]

You have a limited amount of time to dispute the charge.  It can be for lots of different reasons.  Call your CC company now and tell them about the situation.

 

[shaneymack]

So i got a response from the director of sales for Canada this morning. He said he would find me a new table. As for compensation he  reiterated that he could give me a resaw blade or a mobile base. I explained that i have both of those things and that would just be redundant. I asked him to compensate me with the drift master fence, no reply yet.
He said it is an option to return the saw to the dealer but that i would have to deal with the dealer for that and not him. My options are 1- to deal with him and have the parts sent to me that i need and for him to compensate me or 2- deal with the store and arrange for an exchange. I am thinking at this point that it might be a good idea to work with him. He said they will check the table before shipping it to me which would pretty much guaranty that i get a nice table. If i send this one back and get another from the store, nothing guaranties me that it would be as messed up. He will also include a sweet bottle of touch up paint for all future scratches...lol Also, if i could get a drift master fence out of the deal, that would be awesome. As for the resaw king blade, it seems to have terrible reviews online, not sure i really need/want one.

 

[woodguy7]

I can't believe you are still communicating with them.  Tell them to come get the second hand saw (because that is what it basically is) & re-fund your card immediately.  Touch up paint,,,,,,,,,the cheeky b@±*    What if you go through all the hassle & then eventually fire it up & discover it won't cut straight because something is twisted ?  I would return then buy a different brand of saw.  Nobody in that loop is trying to help you, they are trying to get away with as much as possible.

Don't delay any longer.

 

[leer]

another dilemma - do you center the blade on the wheel or do you center the deepest part of the gullet on the wheel [scared]

I swear by the recommendations of Alex Snodgrass. I have a Powermatic that cuts/resaws incredibly well after following his advice.  I have this video bookmarked -- I've recommended it numerous times.

And regarding Laguna's apparent lack of interest in getting this quickly resolved in a satisfactory fashion, I find that totally unacceptable.  I'd inform them their despicable treatment is getting published on an Internet forum to warm others that they apparently couldn't care less about customers.

 

[shaneymack]

I can't believe you are still communicating with them.  Tell them to come get the second hand saw (because that is what it basically is) & re-fund your card immediately.  Touch up paint,,,,,,,,,the cheeky b@±*    What if you go through all the hassle & then eventually fire it up & discover it won't cut straight because something is twisted ?  I would return then buy a different brand of saw.  Nobody in that loop is trying to help you, they are trying to get away with as much as possible.

Don't delay any longer.

The issue with returning the saw and getting another brand is that the prices just jumped significantly in canada due to the low dollar. The saw i bought 2 weeks ago was 2399$. Today it is 2899$. So if i were to return mine and get another brand, i would be paying a huge price increase.

 

[SittingElf]

If you can talk them into the Driftmaster Fence in recompense...Go For It!!! [tongue]  It's awesome, especially with the higher resaw fence option installed.

Also, I don't know where you are seeing bad reports on the Resaw King blades, but I've been using them for years, and they are excellent....REALLY excellent. They can also be resharpened up to five times and when they come back, they are as good as new.

I've resawn down to 1/16" veneers without a problem. Some guys make paper with them (1/32")

Pass on the mobility kits. Simple system that is, well....cheap.

Cheers,

Frank

 

[shaneymack]

If you can talk them into the Driftmaster Fence in recompense...Go For It!!! [tongue]  It's awesome, especially with the higher resaw fence option installed.

Also, I don't know where you are seeing bad reports on the Resaw King blades, but I've been using them for years, and they are excellent....REALLY excellent. They can also be resharpened up to five times and when they come back, they are as good as new.

I've resawn down to 1/16" veneers without a problem. Some guys make paper with them (1/32")

Pass on the mobility kits. Simple system that is, well....cheap.

Cheers,

Frank

Thanks for the info about the fence and blade Frank. I will wait to see what he says about the fence if not maybe i will go for the 1-1/4 blade.

 

[grbmds]

If my memory is correct, isn't this the second Laguna saw that was damaged in transit or at the factory. At the very least, it is the second one I've seen with in the past month which wasn't right when received. For the $2,400 price range, the saw should be in perfect shape when received. Based on these two instances alone, I'd probably would never buy a Laguna product no matter how good their historical reputation is. I paid about $800 for my Rikon Deluxe at Woodcraft a couple of years ago. It is a great saw; maybe not the best on dust collection but I am working on that myself. The saw was in perfect shape except for the rip fence. Rikon sent me  new fence part, which corrected the problem. I don't use their fence anyway. I set it up for resawing like Alex Snodgrass (with Carter) says in his little booklet. It cuts great and has enough power for what I use it for, resawing 6" - 8" wide boards, rough ripping to width, and some curved cutting (very little of that). If Laguna won't provide a new bandsaw without upping the price to its current price in your area, I'd just insist they take back and refund your money. No reason to get a saw that looks banged up regardless of the cause at that price; even at a third of that price which is what I paid for my Rikon. I would be angry that wasn't Laguna's first choice.

 

[GregBradley]

I think most people are missing the part about the saw being bought from a Laguna DEALER, not directly from Laguna. What isn't clear is who shipped the saw. Was it the dealer or Laguna? As the OP seems to be in Canada, I'm wondering how that complicates things.

It seems Laguna only sells that saw through dealers. They only seem to sell their industrial saws direct.

What was the origin of the shipment?

It seems the saw has some issues that would be acceptable or borderline acceptable and others that are totally unacceptable.

 

[wow]

You have a limited amount of time to dispute the charge.  It can be for lots of different reasons.  Call your CC company now and tell them about the situation.

That time frame is not close. By law he has at least 60 days. Most credit card companies give you 6 months, and some give you as long as a year to dispute a charge.

Edit - I forgot that he is in Canada. I don't know what the specific laws are there.

 

[Greg M]

The dealer should replace the saw without doing a return and repurchase.  If they do that then the $500 increase doesn't come into play.  If not, then return it for a full refund.  If they try to charge a restocking fee then work this through your CC company for a full refund.

Personally, I would not use that dealer again and wouldn't buy anything from Laguna again.  After hearing this they won't get any of my money.