thinking about a kapex, your thoughts?

[Job and Knock]

1) it is not necessarily a good plan to power the Kapex using a generator, 2) using long (>25 ft) extension cords, 3) using under-rated extension cords (

 

[ajones]

Peter- I'll bet the mothership is happy that you're eager to jump in a deflect the spotlight, but unfortunately for all of us the I don't think the answer to Kapex's woes is simple.  Because if it was , logically a co. like festool would have already solved the riddle.

I sure wish someone from Festool would officially speak or comment on when it would be preferable for us to plug the Kapex or another high current using Festool directly into the wall on a separate circuit instead of thorough the vac.    It seems to me that it would be better to be proactive in these situations rather than smoke a motor and send it in to Festool to then be told " in your situation , maybe you should............"

Is that too much to ask for ? 

Perhaps they could also chime in definitively on what glass1 brought up. Namely, whether the CT's limit the power available to the tool socket.  And was the available current changed when the 26/36 generation replaced the 22/33 version that had the 20amp plugs on them ?

I do not care one bit what Festool think of what I write or what anyone else writes - that is called freedom of speech. Coupled with that is a sense of balance and fairness which I do care about particularly in this case.

In the UK the majority of domestic circuits for power sockets work in a loop. A group of sockets are connected in series with the last one in the run going back to the start point at the distribution box. That means that each socket has two routes to the distribution box. In my workshop my 13 amp sockets are grouped into 3 circuits of about 4 sockets each and they are each supported by a 30 amp breaker.

I appreciate that we run on 230 volts but watts are watts and so the design of the wiring has to take account of the load.

Perhaps someone could explain how a typical US garage might be wired.

(sorry forgot to add this before)

Low supply voltage can cause motors to overheat - so the supply, which is not in Festool's hands to control, is an important factor when anyone discusses motor failure.

Peter

A ring main is Wired in series? Really?

 

[GarryMartin]

A ring main is Wired in series? Really?

Forgive me. Difficult to tell if that is a sarcastic comment or a genuine question, but simplistically, yes, it's "in series".

A ring final circuit begins at the consumer unit with the (typically 2.5mm2) cable travelling to the first socket, then to the next, and so on until the last socket. The last socket then completes the "ring" by joining back at the consumer unit. There may be some "spurs" from the sockets along the way which breaks the "in series", but in general, it's a valid description.

 

[Stone Message]

[member=61727]Job and Knock[/member]

My real point is that, as far as I know, the UK is the only country using 110v for site work and the efficiency of RCDs will protect people. The real pain comes with owners having 230 v machines in their workshops and having to duplicate with 110 v machines when they go on site.

[member=11629]GarryMartin[/member]

Thank you for saving me explaining that one.

Peter

 

[Ross 71]

A ring main is Wired in series? Really?

Forgive me. Difficult to tell if that is a sarcastic comment or a genuine question, but simplistically, yes, it's "in series".

A ring final circuit begins at the consumer unit with the (typically 2.5mm2) cable travelling to the first socket, then to the next, and so on until the last socket. The last socket then completes the "ring" by joining back at the consumer unit. There may be some "spurs" from the sockets along the way which breaks the "in series", but in general, it's a valid description.

There may be a series of sockets in a ring main, but they are wired in parallel.

 

[Stone Message]

A ring main is Wired in series? Really?

Forgive me. Difficult to tell if that is a sarcastic comment or a genuine question, but simplistically, yes, it's "in series".

A ring final circuit begins at the consumer unit with the (typically 2.5mm2) cable travelling to the first socket, then to the next, and so on until the last socket. The last socket then completes the "ring" by joining back at the consumer unit. There may be some "spurs" from the sockets along the way which breaks the "in series", but in general, it's a valid description.

There may be a series of sockets in a ring main, but they are wired in parallel.

This is a semantic argument really...

You are right that they are all in parallel as it does not make sense to have AC in series for this particular application. However, I used the term "series" to indicate "connected one after another" which is why Garry used the term "simplistically". I am sure that given some flat twin and a bunch of sockets we would all wire them up correctly.

Peter

 

[ajones]

A ring main is Wired in series? Really?

Forgive me. Difficult to tell if that is a sarcastic comment or a genuine question, but simplistically, yes, it's "in series".

A ring final circuit begins at the consumer unit with the (typically 2.5mm2) cable travelling to the first socket, then to the next, and so on until the last socket. The last socket then completes the "ring" by joining back at the consumer unit. There may be some "spurs" from the sockets along the way which breaks the "in series", but in general, it's a valid description.

No sarcasm, just Make sure you know what you are talking about,before some idiot burns their house down.

 

[GarryMartin]

No sarcasm, just Make sure you know what you are talking about,before some idiot burns their house down.

It's a valid point. In attempting to simplify the description for the majority audience, the technical detail that the conductors are effectively operating in parallel on a ring final circuit is lost. Mea culpa.

 

[Job and Knock]

[member=61727]Job and Knock[/member]
My real point is that, as far as I know, the UK is the only country using 110v for site work and the efficiency of RCDs will protect people. The real pain comes with owners having 230 v machines in their workshops and having to duplicate with 110 v machines when they go on site.

Part of the issue with RCDs is that they are rather delicate items which really don't survive all that well in a construction environment - especially during demolition/rip-out, build and first fix phases - and is why major contractors, HSE inspectors and insurance companies don't like them. I have worked on enough jobs in mainland Europe to know that RCDs are a potentially weak link in the electrical supply side of things with 230 volt kit. When they fail you can lose half an hour while another one is located and fitted only to have some muppet kick the bejaysus out of the new one within a day or two, and so on, and so on. In terms of 110 volts on site it isn't exactly a new requirement - it was already mandatory on railway work and had started coming in on large sites in the late 1970s (which was when i bought my first 110 volt kit). When i ran my own shop I actually installed a 10kVA transformer and put in a 110 volt ring main to reduce any inconvenience which might be caused by not being able to run a particular piece of kit which I only had in 110 volt form. Iyt may be worthy commenting that the move to cordless tools with brushless motors and high capacity Li-Ion batteries is making 110 volt less of a must have for many tradesmen, though

 

[Stone Message]

Part of the issue with RCDs is that they are rather delicate items which really don't survive all that well in a construction environment - especially during demolition/rip-out, build and first fix phases - and is why major contractors, HSE inspectors and insurance companies don't like them. I have worked on enough jobs in mainland Europe to know that RCDs are a potentially weak link in the electrical supply side of things with 230 volt kit. When they fail you can lose half an hour while another one is located and fitted only to have some muppet kick the bejaysus out of the new one within a day or two, and so on, and so on. In terms of 110 volts on site it isn't exactly a new requirement - it was already mandatory on railway work and had started coming in on large sites in the late 1970s (which was when i bought my first 110 volt kit). When i ran my own shop I actually installed a 10kVA transformer and put in a 110 volt ring main to reduce any inconvenience which might be caused by not being able to run a particular piece of kit which I only had in 110 volt form. Iyt may be worthy commenting that the move to cordless tools with brushless motors and high capacity Li-Ion batteries is making 110 volt less of a must have for many tradesmen, though

Very informative - many thanks.

Do you think that motors running at 110 v on site or with a less than perfect 110 v supply (say a 15 amp supply in a North American garage) run the risk of overheating due to supply voltage dropping on load?

Peter

 

[ctsvnino]

never really tried the kapex before to give my honest true opinion. but i will say this i have the new flex volt dewalt miter saw always had dewalt miter saw, i never had an issue with motors overheating anything like that. also i can make cuts perfect just like the kapex. only issue is dust isn't the best but i have the fast cap setup so it catches everything. Just cant see spending 1500 on a saw and i can do the same for half the price. Not including if your workers just dont care that day or have a bad day and they break something on the saw would cost so much compared to dewalt. but maybe i will change my mind when i do try the saw.

 

[DrD]

[member=57769]TylerC[/member]

Somewhere on one of these threads concerning the Kapex someone brought up the possibility of slight design/specification changes - change orders if you will in automotive manufacturing parlance - which may have occurred to the NA 120v Kapex over the course of its release to now.  Someone else made the request to [member=57769]TylerC[/member] to investigate this and give some insight - if possible within Festool Corporate Policies.  Just wondering if this was done and if anything can be reported.

 

[copcarcollector]

Somewhere on one of these threads concerning the Kapex someone brought up the possibility of slight design/specification changes - change orders if you will in automotive manufacturing parlance - which may have occurred to the NA 120v Kapex over the course of its release to now.  Someone else made the request to  to investigate this and give some insight - if possible within Festool Corporate Policies.  Just wondering if this was done and if anything can be reported.

http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tools-accessories/kapex-revision-history/msg496323/#msg496323

 

[TylerC]

Somewhere on one of these threads concerning the Kapex someone brought up the possibility of slight design/specification changes - change orders if you will in automotive manufacturing parlance - which may have occurred to the NA 120v Kapex over the course of its release to now.  Someone else made the request to  to investigate this and give some insight - if possible within Festool Corporate Policies.  Just wondering if this was done and if anything can be reported.

http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tools-accessories/kapex-revision-history/msg496323/#msg496323

That's the one. The short answer = There have no significant updates to the Kapex since it was released in North America.

 

[glass1]

Good tools are expensive. Dewalt has up its game lately. I too have the flexvolt dhs790. It kicks but. It's my do everything job site kick ass saw. That said it's not a kapex which I move around my  finished house(a carpenters house is never done) hooked up to dust collection and it excels at crown and other finish work. 2 saws are essential for my work flow. We pay a lower price in the USA for most tools, I can see that changing in the near future. How would everybody feel it the dewalt was $1000. It's coming, wages increasing in China, manufacturing moving back to USA or tariffs. You see the main driver of inflation is workers salaries. Low inflation is good when sale rises are low and we buy everything from Walmart. I sure expect to be paid well for my work.

 

[DrD]

[member=57769]TylerC[/member]

Ok, great; sorry I  missed that post.  Actually, that news does make me feel better.  Thanks again.

DrD

 

[yetihunter]

Well, I'm new to Festool--got sucked in by that sander offer in the fall. : )

I'm thinking about replacing my 10'' Makita slider with a Kapex for two reasons: the small size and dust collection ability.

I went to a local Woodcraft store where the "non-sales" person told me to buy a Bosch when I was looking at the Kapex and answered zero questions.

So here are some things I don't know. Does this saw use a special size blade?? Will my 10'' blades be useless?

Can you hook up a non-Festool vac and still have the vac power on?

How much space do you need to accomodate that vac hose coming out the back of the saw?

Should I just buy a Bosch and buy you all a beer with what I save?

Buy the Kapex if you've got the money for it.  We shouldn't be drinking beer around power tools, anyway.  [big grin]
 

 

[papabear1044]

Until Festool owns up to the accuracy issue, it's a wast of money.  Twice the price and they cannot get the stops to be accurate.  Sure, there's a procedure for making it accurate (well, nearly so), but then the line-guide is off.  For the money, they should be ashamed for foisting this onto their otherwise loyal users.  With lasers and CNC these days, there is no excuse for this ever to be anything but spot on - and it isn't that.

 

[semenza]

    Accuracy issue?  I am sure that not every saw comes out of the box with perfect adjustment, ( I needed to set the lasers on mine) but I don't recall from all the Kapex posts on the forum there being any ongoing accuracy issue that isn't just normal adjustment that goes along with any tool of this type. At least not something that appears to be a chronic problem.

    A little more detail would be helpful.

Seth

 

[Cheese]

Accuracy has never been the issue, it's the engine that's been the problem. [tongue]