Woodpecker's Parallel Guide System One Time Tool
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marcustait79
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fritter63 said:
Hoping to upgrade to my $10,000 CNC machine by producing more $50 scrap plywood parallel guides on my $1999.00 CNC!!! https://www.stepcraft.us/product/stepcraft-2840-desktop-cnc-system/
You could also make these plywood guides with router table or saw!?? [smile]
Slartibartfass
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Got mine plus metric set and extra flip stops on Tuesday. Ordered from Woodpecker.
Not sure why people can't get the metric. I ordered and received metric guided this week. Used them once and like them better than the Festool guide rails. Easier to set up and and lays flat on the piece instead of hanging off the edges. Happy with my purchase.
Got my imperial set a while back. I also received 4 replacement rails in the mail today. It came with a letter stating there was a defect in the rails in my original set and these were to replace the defective ones. Pretty good service as far as I am concerned as I have not used my set yet and had no idea there was anything wrong with them.
Jack
Jack
My son and I both got this one time tool. He used his last week and noticed that the bracket protrusion that should fit in the groove on the top of the rail is too wide for the groove. I hadn't set mine up so went and checked the fit on mine to the rail and found mine also sits proud of the rail because the protrusion is too wide to sit in the groove as it should. The picture below is the pic my son took of his bracket/rail problem. My looks identical. Anyone else had this problem?
Jack
Jack
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Hey Guys this is Wayne. I'm one of the tool designers here at Woodpeckers. Let me try to respond to the question about the Main Body Bracket. The bottom of the bracket was designed with a wedge shape. That feature is not suppose to fit in the track. It was designed to "wedge" in the track as to always center when the screws are tightened. It is the same feature we use on multiple Woodpecker products. The flip stops on the Parallel Guide System also have that feature. I hope this explanation helps.
Cheese
Member
Zeusman said:
[member=34727]Zeusman[/member]
[welcome] to the FOG Wayne, it's great to be able to talk with a Woodpeckers tool designer and get design criteria/decisions directly from the "horse's mouth". It's what I've been advocating Festool should consider for the last 10 months. [poke] Festool
When I looked at the [member=10616]Claimdude[/member] photo and then read your explanation, something just didn't seem right, so I went downstairs to take a closer look. What I noticed is that there is indeed a 20-25 degree taper on both sides of the part in question. The original photo doesn't reveal the taper but that's just because of the perspective of the photograph.
I've attached below a photo of the part which clearly shows the tapers that would facilitate the self centering feature on the track rail. Thanks for your input and I hope you stick around. Woodpeckers questions come up on a regular basis. [thumbs up]
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Cheese
Member
For those of you that haven't had the opportunity to examine this OTT closely, here are a couple of shots of the coupler. Aluminum, nicely finished with proprietary stainless "set screws" for lack of a better description.
I can think of a couple things this coupler would work with if it was just a bit longer...
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Large pad on the bottom of the setscrew to prevent dimpling of the aluminum rail. Real nice...
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Installed in a Woodpeckers rail...
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Installed in a Festool rail...just needs to be a bit longer, right [member=34727]Zeusman[/member] ?
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Installed in a 8020 rail...I don't have a need for this, but I did think it was interesting.
I can think of a couple things this coupler would work with if it was just a bit longer...
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Large pad on the bottom of the setscrew to prevent dimpling of the aluminum rail. Real nice...
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Installed in a Woodpeckers rail...
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Installed in a Festool rail...just needs to be a bit longer, right [member=34727]Zeusman[/member] ?
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Installed in a 8020 rail...I don't have a need for this, but I did think it was interesting.
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blakjak220
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Zeusman said:
Hey Wayne, thanks for the reply.
The original photo is of my bracket/rail. I originally thought the tapered section was, as you described, designed to level itself out on the rail groove in order to stay flat. The problem is that it just doesn't work like that. The size of the protrusion on the bracket is big enough to where it basically "rocks" back and forth no matter how tight it is. I can get it even on the rail and tighten it but if there is any pressure on the bracket/rail connection then it slips out of place - causing the cutting edge of the rail to basically be in a different plane than the side where the connection is. Again, even when the screws are tight, it only takes a little pressure (like when moving the rails/guides to a different cut position) to make it shift. There is no way to make it completely stable that I can find, having used 2 different rails and adjusted the screws all the way from barely tight to being as tight as I would think it could handle. I def understand the idea of the tapered section sort of "self-leveling", but something about the dimensions or angles on this piece aren't working correctly... maybe it's just a dimension issue (it seems like if the taper was narrower it would sit further down in the groove and level itself out... seems like my stops sit deeper in the groove) or something else. I have tried everything I can think of to make it work. Like you said, the guide stops use the same design, but on mine they lock up tight with only light pressure, while the bracket doesn't at all. I also sent the picture to the Woodpecker cust service email. Don't get me wrong, I'm definitely a pro-Woodpecker customer and have lots of red tools I love to use, I'm just having a little trouble with this one. Any other ideas? I'm sure someone will reply from the Woodpecker cust svc email in the next couple of days.
Thanks again,
blakjak220
blakjak220
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Cheese said:
Hey Cheese,
Have you had a chance to actually try your bracket on the rail and use it for a little bit? Just wondering if you got yours to work correctly without any slippage. Thanks
blakjak220
Cheese
Member
blakjak220 said:
No unfortunately I have not, I'm in the middle of a bathroom gut so I haven't been breaking down sheet goods recently.
I assembled the guide system and then put it aside. Maybe I'll try to mount them to the rail later and move the rail around and see what happens.
I'll @ you when I try the rail & guides.
blakjak220
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- Feb 9, 2014
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- 87
Cheese said:
Sounds good, Cheese.
Wayne,
I agree with everything Blakjak said with a bit of an addition. When I tested my brackets on 4 tracks ( 2-55", 1-75", and 1-108") I found that the narrow base of the that should slip inside the channel on top of the rail is wider than the channels on my rails. In order for a wedge to properly align and tighten on the rail it must protrude at least slightly into the channel without forcing it. In my case if one corner of the narrow part the wedge just kisses one edge of the channel the other overlaps the other so that I can't get the bracket to set centered and aligned without forcing it. That would damage my rail and everyone knows damaging your Festool rails is not a good plan. For proper alignment and tightening without damaging the channel it seems to me the wedge needs to protrude slightly into the channel (both beveled edges) with only a small amount of shoulder protruding above the channel so that when the screw is snugged it will force the bracket centered and the shoulders touching the top of the channel. Since my TS55 rides on that channel causing it to splay outward would make my saw fit too tight. Granted, I can adjust the saw but that is not an acceptable fix for a problem that should not occur. Further, the splayed parts of the rail would only be where the brackets are attached and tightened. The saw would then slight tight across the splayed areas and loose across the areas not splayed. I am traveling on business so don't have access to my guides and rails but have attached a rather crude drawing of what I am talking about below. Like Blakjak I too am a huge fan of Woodpecker and have a lot of red in my tool drawers and on my walls (pictures available upon request ;-). I have sent an email to Woodpecker regarding this issue as well. I was going to call them today but spent the day in meetings and didn't have time.
Regarding your comment below that the wedge design is also used for the Woodpecker rails that attach to the brackets as well. I didn't test that but would posit that the fit is probably spot on but only because Woodpecker has control of the tolerances and rails but do not have control of the Festool rail tolerances.
I have every confidence that Woodpecker will get in touch with me on this and resolve the issues. The main reason I posted here was to see if others had the same experience or is mine and Blakjak's experience with the parallel set the outlier?
Jack
I agree with everything Blakjak said with a bit of an addition. When I tested my brackets on 4 tracks ( 2-55", 1-75", and 1-108") I found that the narrow base of the that should slip inside the channel on top of the rail is wider than the channels on my rails. In order for a wedge to properly align and tighten on the rail it must protrude at least slightly into the channel without forcing it. In my case if one corner of the narrow part the wedge just kisses one edge of the channel the other overlaps the other so that I can't get the bracket to set centered and aligned without forcing it. That would damage my rail and everyone knows damaging your Festool rails is not a good plan. For proper alignment and tightening without damaging the channel it seems to me the wedge needs to protrude slightly into the channel (both beveled edges) with only a small amount of shoulder protruding above the channel so that when the screw is snugged it will force the bracket centered and the shoulders touching the top of the channel. Since my TS55 rides on that channel causing it to splay outward would make my saw fit too tight. Granted, I can adjust the saw but that is not an acceptable fix for a problem that should not occur. Further, the splayed parts of the rail would only be where the brackets are attached and tightened. The saw would then slight tight across the splayed areas and loose across the areas not splayed. I am traveling on business so don't have access to my guides and rails but have attached a rather crude drawing of what I am talking about below. Like Blakjak I too am a huge fan of Woodpecker and have a lot of red in my tool drawers and on my walls (pictures available upon request ;-). I have sent an email to Woodpecker regarding this issue as well. I was going to call them today but spent the day in meetings and didn't have time.
Regarding your comment below that the wedge design is also used for the Woodpecker rails that attach to the brackets as well. I didn't test that but would posit that the fit is probably spot on but only because Woodpecker has control of the tolerances and rails but do not have control of the Festool rail tolerances.
I have every confidence that Woodpecker will get in touch with me on this and resolve the issues. The main reason I posted here was to see if others had the same experience or is mine and Blakjak's experience with the parallel set the outlier?
Jack
Zeusman said:
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Bohdan
Member
Claimdude said:
Your TS55 doesn't ride on that channel, it only rides on the other (centre) channel, this channel is only used for accessories like the parallel guides or stops but I agree that the accessory should not go in so tight as to damage the rail.
Cheese
Member
[member=28617]blakjak220[/member]
I took one of the Woodpeckers guide legs and attached it to the Festool rail, lightly tightening one of the screws down so that it was able to center itself, I then lightly tightened the second screw to again allow it to center itself. At this time there was still some movement in the attachment mechanism but I wanted to allow both fasteners to properly allow the beveled part of the attachment to properly find home (center itself). While both screws were still somewhat loose and the beveled part of the attachment could still center itself, I then snugged up both screws to find out how well it centered itself on the Festool rail. After 7 different attempts, these photos outline the results.
In every instance, I loosened both screws, repeated the procedure and then followed the tightening schedule outlined above.
In the first 4 attempts, the guide leg biased itself towards the front of the Festool rail, in the next 2 attempts the guide rail biased itself towards the rear of the Festool rail and it was only on the final attempt that the guide leg actually centered itself on the Festool rail.
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At this point I find the results not random enough and think there might be some operator error on my part that potentially skewed the outcome. I'll bring the assembly outside tomorrow and try it again on a flat table and in the light of day.
It is interesting however, that the self centering feature doesn't appear to function reliably and that could be because of the angle of the chamfers. I noted previously an angle of 20-25 degrees but would expect a chamfer angle of 60-70 degrees would more easily self align itself in the Festool rail, however that would also increase the probability of wedging itself into the Festool rail and possibly distorting it .
I took one of the Woodpeckers guide legs and attached it to the Festool rail, lightly tightening one of the screws down so that it was able to center itself, I then lightly tightened the second screw to again allow it to center itself. At this time there was still some movement in the attachment mechanism but I wanted to allow both fasteners to properly allow the beveled part of the attachment to properly find home (center itself). While both screws were still somewhat loose and the beveled part of the attachment could still center itself, I then snugged up both screws to find out how well it centered itself on the Festool rail. After 7 different attempts, these photos outline the results.
In every instance, I loosened both screws, repeated the procedure and then followed the tightening schedule outlined above.
In the first 4 attempts, the guide leg biased itself towards the front of the Festool rail, in the next 2 attempts the guide rail biased itself towards the rear of the Festool rail and it was only on the final attempt that the guide leg actually centered itself on the Festool rail.
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At this point I find the results not random enough and think there might be some operator error on my part that potentially skewed the outcome. I'll bring the assembly outside tomorrow and try it again on a flat table and in the light of day.
It is interesting however, that the self centering feature doesn't appear to function reliably and that could be because of the angle of the chamfers. I noted previously an angle of 20-25 degrees but would expect a chamfer angle of 60-70 degrees would more easily self align itself in the Festool rail, however that would also increase the probability of wedging itself into the Festool rail and possibly distorting it .
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